NINJAS: Dragon Soul Alchemy atk-value NOT WORKING while using transformation!

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    • Oh yeah, sorry, I was about to answer but have been interrupted. I won't go into much details, but to sum it up, your screenshots show a mix of problems of what I enumerated above. A small info that will explain almost all screenshots is that your base damage is quite low and you only gain additional damage bonus which is added on top at different points in time (or in the calculation). That's why you don't really see much change sometimes or why it behaves weird. But there are also some bugs, that's true. :D

    • Hey again, @Aworan! :)

      Where were we left off?

      Aworan wrote:

      A small info that will explain almost all screenshots is that your base damage is quite low and you only gain additional damage bonus which is added on top at different points in time (or in the calculation).
      This is not really true. I made some other experiments and, well, the SAME odd behaviour is occurring even by wearing a pair of Devil Chakram with 49% avg damages - I think they give a considerable boost to my attack value. This is actually the best I could afford.

      (Yeah, I could have used a Crow Steel Bow, but its range is way too unpredictable).

      Anyway, the pattern is the same. Just with bigger numbers.

      In particular, when I hypothesized that the "atk-value Ruby" wasn't properly working (and its benefits were only due to STR) you answered me:

      Aworan wrote:

      Yes. STR increases damage of a warrior by 2 per point (hence the 24dmg from 12str in my explanation above). Without a weapon and percentual bonuses, it is impossible that 12str cause an increase in damage of about 70%
      Well, I'm pretty sure you were wrong.

      To make it simple... We said that the mere fact of activating any power-up (be it Khan pet or DSS) causes a recalculation of values, probably the ones given by biologist quests (as you theorized).

      Well, it's this recalculation ONLY which justifies the increase of the actual damage you noticed: I'm pretty convinced the atk-value given by the ruby isn't still working.

      Why am I sure of this, you may ask.

      Well. First of all, because activating a bonus-less Ruby gave the same results of an atk-value one.

      Secondly, because if I disable DSS (after having transformed, activated it and evaluated the damage), well, the actual damage... goes up. Yup. It increases as soon as alchemy has been TURNED OFF.

      =

      I'm sorry if I end up being annoying but I keep insisting because you sounded like: "oh yeah, there's some bug, but it's just a recalculation matter, the value is taken into account".

      And now you even came up with the low damage thing. :(

      My reply is a suggestion: since I'm doing all of this tests with a ninja, next time please have a try with a ninja character. There may be a problem concerning some (or even all) classes BUT warriors.

      Metin2 is not new to this kind of issues.

      =

      As I said before, I made a new experiment, I'll post the results soon - by adding some screenshots.

    • So, @Aworan.

      Here's my test, as I promised.

      Character: male Archer Ninja, lv. 93
      Equipment: Devil chakram, 49% avg damage
      Tissue belt +9
      Blue armor (it doesn't provide any atk-value bonus).

      Extras:
      - Khan pet
      - DSS Brilliant Ruby, wielding +270 atk on the "air" set;
      - DSS Excellent Ruby, wielding +18% avg dmg, on the "earth" set.

      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

      (A) Basic damage.

      I transformed into a Savage Infantry and tried the actual damage on wild dogs.

      I got several results, all ranging between 4876 - 4998

      Screen: imgur.com/a/iGNTJ

      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

      (B) Power-up activation: KHAN pet summoning

      Then, I activated the Khan pet.

      Damage range rose to 5350 - 5468

      Screen: imgur.com/a/OVQRf

      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

      (C) Power-up disabling: KHAN pet removal

      As we already noticed, damage range decreased but was significantly higher than the range displayed in test (A). It's probably due to some recalculation.

      Damage range dropped to 5159 - 5276.

      Screen: imgur.com/a/RN0dI

      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

      (D) Enabling DSS Ruby giving +18% avg damage

      Damage range rose to 5637 - 5749.

      Screen: imgur.com/a/fjrOW

      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

      (E) DISABLING DSS Ruby +18% avg damage

      Damage range became once again 5159 - 5276, just like in test (C)

      Screen: imgur.com/a/L2Bya

      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

      (F) Enabling DSS Ruby giving +270 atkValue

      Damage FELL to 4973 - 5112. Even lower than (C), this is the bug I was referring to.

      Screens: imgur.com/a/1SyZv
      imgur.com/a/TUGA9


      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

      (G) Disabling DSS Ruby giving +270 atkValue

      Damage range rose to 5159 - 5276, just like in (C).

      Screen: imgur.com/a/KVfWq

      ===
      ===
      ===

      I went for another test. I thought that having started off with Khan might have altered the results.

      In this case, I transformed into a Blue Wolf and enabled DSS atkValue Ruby as soon as I transformed. So:


      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

      (H) Base damage, without alchemy.

      Damage range: 4876 - 4998, just like before

      I forgot to take a screen here, but the range was exactly the same observed in (A).

      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

      (I) Enabling DSS Ruby giving +270 atkValue

      Damage range: 4973 - 5112

      As you can see, this is the same range noted in (C), right after having summoned and removed Khan pet. The increase is due to the activation of a power-up, in this case, DSS ruby.

      However, +270 is not taken into account. In fact, as soon as I disabled it (see test J), the damage range rises.

      Screens: imgur.com/a/uDEWD
      imgur.com/a/0uTy9

      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

      (J) Disabling DSS ruby giving +270 atkValue

      As I just said, actual damage range increases right after having DISABLED the ruby.

      Damage range: 5159 - 5276

      Screen: imgur.com/a/NB8TY

      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

      Again, another confirmation.

      (K) Starting off as a Black Wind soldier.

      No alchemy, nor pet activated, just like in (A). And not surprisingly, I get the same range: 4876 - 4998

      Screen: imgur.com/a/VCyGa

      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

      (L) Enabling a plain DSS Ruby. Since it's plain, this ruby does NOT provide any extra bonus.

      Its up is +4: this way, it gives the same amount of STR given by a Brilliant, that is to say, +9 str.

      Damage range: 4973 - 5112, the same given by an atkValue ruby!!!

      Screens: imgur.com/a/8Xp5q
      imgur.com/a/EPG4J

      Please, COMPARE (C), (F), (I) and (L).

      You keep saying that an "atkValue ruby" produces an increase when compared to the starting situation (that would be (A)).

      But, as you can see in (F), (I), (L), you get the same increase when compared to (A), REGARDLESS OF THE atkVALUE GIVEN BY THE RUBY.

      This means that the atkValue is NOT taken into account!

      ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

      (M) Disabling the plain Ruby.

      Damage value ROSE to 5159 - 5276, same as in (C)

      Screen: imgur.com/a/n6XAX

      As you can see, when you activate something and then turn it off, you get a slight increase (compared to the VERY begninning situation).

      The problem is that, while Khan/"Avg Ruby" effectively give a net increase, regardless of this recalculation (as you can see in (B) and (D)), the "atkValue ruby" works just like a plain one.

      Yet, it's definitely not normal to see that actual damage RISES when disabling alchemy. A character needs to have alchemy enabled, in order to receive bonuses from the other stones.


      =


      I'll be providing some screens, just a moment while I edit the message.

      Done!

      The post was edited 10 times, last by BlueShade ().

    • Thanks for your time, Aworan.

      I just wanted to make myself clear - by the way, as I'm not a native speaker, I'm always afraid
      I'm not explaining things well.

      You may be wondering why I still keep insisting on this subject. As I already said, I don't wanna be annoying nor to abuse your patience. :)

      The fact is, I got the impression that you haven't fully understood what I'm trying to point out - or rather, that you've not been experiencing the SAME issue I'm talking about.

      And I'm very convinced it's due to the fact you chose a warrior rather than a ninja.

      I got this impression since you wrote this message:

      NINJAS: Dragon Soul Alchemy atk-value NOT WORKING while using transformation!

      ...Your lv.120 warrior's damage lifted from 1700 to 2800, as soon as you enabled the +360atk DSS Ruby. You admitted a certain loss of damage, since you expected it to be about 3200, but you still obtained a significant increase. And you were performing your test without weapons.

      Now.

      Just have a look at my tests: none of my tests involving an "atk-Value DSS ruby" granted me a noticeable increase in damage.

      Please compare (C), (F), (I) and (L). Also give a look at (M).

      I'm not having halucinations, my results seem DRAMATICALLY different from yours,
      A brilliant ruby+5 (giving +9str, +270atk) AND a plain excellent ruby+4 (just +9 str) give exactly the SAME effects, on my ninja.

      Since you kept saying that it was due to "some points being lost from calculations", now I'm here telling you that it's not like that. It's that those points, in my tests, are entirely NOT taken into account.

    • You are not annoying me, but you should still listen to what I say (because I have more possibilities to check stuff than you have ^^). Whether you annoy other people is nothing I can tell you, though. :P

      I had another look - with a ninja this time. My statement is still the same, although I can give you some more insight what actually happens:
      • Using a polymarble invokes a recalculation of your stats, but this process seems broken as it ignores basically all bio quests, potions, etc.
      • Enabling DSS does only give you the DSS bonus, but not the other bonuses (tip: they are still shown in the new bonus UI, but this are not your actual stats).
      • When calling Khan with enabled DSS, the bonuses of bio quests and potions get enabled, but DSS bonuses are removed (depending on your DSS and bio quests, this can either mean an increase or decrease in damage, obviously).
      • When putting away Khan, DSS still remains disabled. It can be re-enabled by turning it off and on again.
      • I could not find a way to enable bonuses of DSS and the pet at the same time, with neither sequence of usage.
      In my test setup, I used a ninja with stats of 90/13/90/90. This means he had 420 base damage (level 120). I added all bio quest rewards, which means damage rewards of +161 (lv60: 50, lv92: 51, lv94: 60).
      • As a result, my damage without poly was 581.
      • In poly, I had 420 (which is 581 - 161).
      • With DSS (max ruby with 360atk) the damage was at 804 (which is 420 + 12str*2 + 360).
      • With DSS enabled, the damage reduced to 605 (which is the very odd part, because that's 420 + 12*2 + 161).
      So as a result, I know now that only the additional DSS bonuses (3rd to 5th) are not taken into account... if you use a pet. But I also know that it is not a problem directly related to ninjas, but rather a very basic stat calculation issue.

    • That's quite a list of issues!

      By the way:

      Aworan wrote:

      I could not find a way to enable bonuses of DSS and the pet at the same time, with neither sequence of usage.
      I don't know if I'm off-topic but there's actually a case in which you can get both the power-ups from Khan pet and DSS Ruby - or, rather, you get the highest "damage numbers" when using DSS and Khan pet.

      That happens just if the ruby has got average damages.

      I guess it's because percentage values are (more or less!) properly calculated... while the values which are supposed to be summed up behave strangely.

      Aworan wrote:

      With DSS enabled, the damage reduced to 605 (which is the very odd part, because that's 420 + 12*2 + 161).
      It would seem that atkValue given by DSS Ruby somewhat "replaces" the atkValue given by bioQuests (and maybe potions and other bonuses as well).

      By the way, I presume that the actual output of damage was 605*4, since you were in poly-mode.