Critical hit changes??

I think it will! It's really sad to see people doing beran or whatever in solo when they should be like raid and make people get along.
But reducing critic hits even with MOBS and METIN ROCKS, which everyone should be able to do in solo, it's not a good idea since grinding is already boring for its reasons.

What should I do with my fan+9?

There are many options to influence the DMG output. Changing the critical dmg will influence the prices of equipment very much and will make much of it worthless.

Devalue player's equipment should be a no go.

First off all.. let's all calm down. This is a Beta Server, they're trying new Stuff here so we can give them our Opinions on what is wrong and what is right.

Furthermore we all know that a Balancing is needed. Everybody has been crying for one over the last Years, what do you expect? No changes in Damage? No Nerfs to any Race/Class? Come on, wake up. Everybody wants a Balancing which doesn't devalue Players Equipment, but as soon as they're trying to nerf some Stuff regarding Damage Output/Income everyone of you is freaking out.

Test the Stuff, and give good Feedback. I agree with you on the Critical Hit Argument being useless in PvE after those Changes - yes. But that's why they need Feedback in the first Place. With the Piercing Hit Problem they've proven that they're willing to change Stuff if we're able to convince them on how to do it in a better Way. So let's try that.

@unforgiven regarding the "Solo Boss" Situation. I have to disagree with you. This Game is not ment to be played in Big Groups. Sure, you'd like us to do that. But i think everybody should be able to decide for themselves if they want to participate in a Group or Solo.. you shoulnd't be forcing People to play the Game the Way YOU think is the best.

The problem is that,even by assuming they woke up with the idea of making bosses much more difficult, I think this is not the right way to do it.

I'm saying this because critical hits are useful also in other aspects of PvE not directly linked to bosses - for instance, killing mobs and gaining experience points. Considering that collecting exp points in high level maps, such as the Enchanted Forest is definitely NOT an easy feat, nullifying the effectiveness of critical hits is a HUGE demotivation, for everyone!

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I guess they wanted to come up with something that could both fix the exaggerated damages on skills and make the game somewhat more challenging, at the same time - and they decided to try changing critical hits.

This is not the good way to do that.

So:

1) If you want to make bosses more difficult - and I sincerely hope you don't want to do that - please consider raising specific resistance of bosses to PG weapons (one or two handed swords, bells, daggers, bow, claws and whatever). In that case, you should also make rewards better.

2) If you want to make critical hits less effective in PvP and GvG, please consider introducing the resistance to critical hits / piercing hits as a new passive bonus available in the character sheet. Or please come up with other ideas.

These are my ideas. But please do NOT nullify critical hits in PvE.

good idea.

But other then that i like the new Update. Especially the Change to critical Hits in PvP. You'll just have to change the Critical Hits back to the Old System in PvE and come up with different Ideas to make it more challenging. But the rest is fine the way it is imO.

The problem is not going in a group or going alone. The same depends on the types of players you cross, there are people who like to do everything in a group and other things alone. As well there are people who like to do both (like me).
The real problem is that everything one could do in solo, it will have to do in a group, and everything that could be done in a group now complicated much more than before. In other words this affects and adds much difficulty to everything that could be done in pvm.
It is more than sense to have equipment of critics, if only we will have a maximum of 20% or 25% if one wants to go to the maximum.
All this previous, is a consequence of only the change of the critics. I think that this should mainly be changed to the way it was before.
About the shamans, I do not see sense that one class has to use bell and the other fanes. Both would have to have the same power using both weapons and the difference should come only because of the damage that these weapons give. It is more in this way they are rendering unusable a lot of equipment for both shamans with this change of weapons, as well as all equipment that takes critics.
On calculations of stats in skills, it will be difficult to see how they work even if they make the archers increase their abilities with intelligence or in the case of a shaman who increase with force I do not see much sense to him in their combination of normal statuses.

Can any one explain to us what this change in how the basic attack damage is calculated? I really do not understand if that "+" refers to the equipment or something new they want to implement.Since it is something that is not well explained and will greatly affect if they modify our base damage.
I propose this goes about the changes:
- Archers should increase their skill damage by using only strength and dexterity
-In the skill of "Attack" instead of rising with strength should increase its value with dexterity and intelligence or just one of them.
- In the ability of "Summon Lightning" instead of rising with strength, it should increase its damage with dexterity and intelligence.
- Make shamans benefit by using both types of weapons no matter what kind of class they are. Always the fanes have been better in pvp than in pvm for their values of magic attack and I believe that as this game is done this should continue like this. Is more I have a reason to say, there is already a fan of 70 pvp and a bell of 75 that is dedicated to pvm. If this is not proof that the game is armed this way I do not know what to think anymore.
-In Dragon Shaman skills all should be improved with more intelligence and attack skills such as "Flying Talisman", "Shooting Dragon" and "Dragon Roar" should only increase using dexterity and intelligence.
-Make the probabilities of critics calculated as they should be. If you carry 10% you should have 10% to be able to hit a critical hit. This is something that should not be modified since it will destroy the pvp and especially the pve in the game. And it does not matter if one goes alone or in a group, all that one could hardly do in a group, if this is not changed, it will be like 5 to 10 times more difficult because they will all feel that they need more damage.
-Make the shamans buffs again have the same cooldown as before or less than one minute. Because otherwise it will be very negative for them both in pvp and pve affect especially everything group and can be done alone.For example if they have to fight with a sura armament they will spend most of the time fighting without buffs by the dispel.
This is what I propose about the changes they made.I hope they will take our opinions into account as these changes that they propose affect totally the game in all the areas or ranges of levels.

Off-topic:

I am happy that people started to write what they believe in and in a civilized way. Let's continue like this.

Yes, I am reading the topic, let's continue discussing!

If you want to make PvE Content more Group based you can do it. But only if you still provide the Possibility, for Players who are not willing to group up with other People, to kill their Bosses Solo.

Meaning, you could add another Instance of the Boss Monster/Run iG. which is way more powerfull. While fighting in that certain area you could role out your changes regarding Critical Hits, so that it makes the Boss even harder for Groups. But keep in Mind that you HAVE to raise the Reward for those Runs massively.

to reduce critical Hits is not that bad, sure no one want to lose DMG

but we have too much DMG in this game, it is possible to have more than 100% crit, with this high base-attack it's to powerfull in my opinion.

maybe the "new" crit is to low... let's test it ;D

That's only partially true. Yes, we want to lose DMG so we can have a better Balancing. But Critical Hits are not the Problem here. The Problem is Stuff like the Alchemy, Pets with Berserk, Lvl 100 Helmets with AV, Shoulder Sash System &&&.

We should work on such Things, not on Things like Critical Hits. But most likely you will not see Changes in those Categories because they're some of the most Income from the Itemshop.. (Pets, Shoulder Sash System, Alchemy)

The only Things that the "new Critical Hit" does, is making PvE Content much harder/nearly impossible. If you would be easily able to reach 150+ Critical Chance, okay - you could try it. But even with full Critical Equipment you can bearly reach 66% Crit (10 Necklace, 10 Shoes, 10 Weapon, 10 Weapon Skin, 8 Stone, 18 Bracelet) if i'm not mistaken.. so even with a VERY GOOD Buff (my Buff Shaman gave 56%) you're only able to reach 122% Critical Hit. Which happens to be 'round ~21% Critical Hit Chance (5,68% Critical Chance = 1% new Critical Chance) that's just gonna kill PvE Content if added to the Game like that.

only 14 in the Bracelet, as Weapon-Sura I use the 54 earrings, so i am at 70% in the Equimtent, my Buff gives me 47% (if someone plays a Dragon Shaman he had to use other things, but he needs every Dmg he can get <.<)
with "Critical Strike" and a good Red Dew we can get 40% extra, these Items are a kind of useless at some point

Anyways, thats no problem
things like Alchemy and all the others gives double DMG because of Crit...
Equiment-Objects aren't possible to remove at this point on the game, to change the way how the DMG will be calculated is more easy to accept vom players as to steal them their Equiment

I want a lower Dmg, because the differences between a good and a new player are then not this big anymore.
But how to do this?

Yeah, but consider that every monster in the game, and in particular every boss, has got a certain amount of HP, a way of acting and a set of rewards which has been decided EARLIER, when critical hits worked just like they've always done.

Removing a steady occurence of critical hits may cause PvE activities to become almost impossible.

Dropping from 90% to 15.83% chance of critical hits is like nullifying them. Come on.

Still, it's pointless to have 90% writter in your equipment and then being able to use just a small fraction of it. It's like a mockery, at least denomination should be changed!

That's why I keep insisting on the resistance to critical hits.

And that's I agree with players who suggested to give full "self-buffs" to Shamans and reduced buffs to the party members.

Why dont calculate the crit in another way?
Now the crit works like damage x2.
The damage is too big? Ok.
Then change it to damage x1.5

Problem solved and the equipments still be valuable. But reduce the chance???

The critical bonus after on equipments will be equal with the max sp 80 bonus...

The proposed value seems very low, and if it will be like this, it is to low, less than 50% of the value today i can't accept too
but we didn't see it ingame
there are many ways to bring this into order, the bosses coud be weaker...
(i know, the chance for that ist realy low )

Reducing the ammount of Dmg a Critical hit gives you is nearly the same to reduce the chance of crit...

the monsters could work with "Resistance against critical hits"
maybe this would easyer to accept but the result is the same
=> less dmg

only 14 in the Bracelet, as Weapon-Sura I use the 54 earrings

No, in PvE you don't. PvP, maybe.

Ah, i forgot about the Stew and Moonlight Push. So yes, 40% more. Which adds up to 162. So you'll be able to reach 28,5% Critical Chance in PvE.

We want less DMG in the game , we “kind of” got less DMG (at the wrong place.)

You still can have over 90% sworddefence if you want to go full single defence.
And you still do tons of DMG on someone who doesn't have a total of ~80-90% DMG-Reduction (throw sworddefence + skill-defence + race-defence).
That is because there are too many DMG-Push Items like Dragon god Power, Dues, Pets, Alchemy or just to many strong Against Halfhuman bonuses.

So the main-problems are still there. Including
-Anti magic stones --> because of temporary skins. (you can reach over 100%) -> remove Skins and remove the AM-Stones and change the MR-Dew to something else (maybe cirt or piercing reduction).
-To high DMG in PVP still there -->you could reduce the “strong against humans” bonuses.
-To high solo-defences possible --> you could add a limit, so that it doesn't matter if you have over 100% Magic resistance of sword defence etc. you will only gain a maximum amount of 70%-80% (somewhere around that)

Also
-If you want to decrease the critical DMG then you could add some Critical-Resistance Items, like new belts, necklaces or bracelets.

If you nerf the DMG in PVM, then please nerf the Monsters and Bosses ass well.
So that it is like the same over all.
Because now the PvM part will get pretty hard on some Maps/Dungeons/Bosses and a lot of players will get frustrated.
I don’t want to go into the skill changes too much, because I want to see them first (how they actually work now).

But to change the skills is not that important.
The important thing is:
-to get a good balancing between the amount of “push” you can reach and the amount of “defence/resistance”.
-after you got a good balance between “push” and “defence” then you can do some changes in the skills.
This is just my opinion about the current situation.

As soon as the Servers are online I will try to make some tests and show that those changes aren't the best way to solve the main PvP-Balancing problems.
The same goes for PvM.


I also don't like to be dependend on other people in PvM.

If you want to have a more group relative game then why don't you implement different difficulties.
So that a group or player can choose on wich difficult they/him want to challenge the beran setau (also named blue dragon):
-Normal difficulty: Is like currently, the reward will be normal.
-Advanced: You deal the half amount of DMG to the Dragon then usually --> increased reward (1,5 x from normal)
-Expert: You deal 1/3 DMG + he has more life in general + spawn more Monsters, --> highly increased reward (2,5 x from normal)
-Unbreakable/"Immortal": You deal 1/8 DMG to the Dragon + The Dragon deal more DMG to you + ... --> extremely high reward (8 x from normal + something else)

There could be more difficulties for other bosses, Dungeon, ... Also normal Maps could get different difficulties.
They higher the difficult they better the exp/rewards.
With such changes you could increase the Group-Playment.
Then you would have a challenge for Groups.
I also recommend a Boss-Counter. That counts how many times you killed a boss instead of the current "card system".


Edit:
Why did you chance the calculation instead of decreasing the amount that the Bonuses gives.
Like the current 10% critical chance on swords etc. will be nerfed to 1% and 5% will be 0,5% etc.
Then the new Dragon’s Aid would give like 5-9% maximum.
So that the logic, that 1% gives 1% will be keeped.

I really don't like to calculate the real chance every time. It would be nice to see how much % you have and that amount is the real amount that works.

Not a complete answer of currently issues; you cannot just cut off a certain value to have a good result.
Keep in mind also now we will have the weapon itselfs and weapon upgrade will influence the output critical damage.
If it will be x1.5 and plus the new stuff it seems it will be the same result as x2, at most.

We should figure it out all together when public beta will be online again.

As Yemon said, changing Critical Damage Strikes/Calculation won't solve the "we got to much Damage in the Game" Problem.

There are still to many things that influence the Damage Calculation.

- Alchemy, 360 AV/18 Average DMG, 18% Strong against X
- Pet's, 12% Berserk
- Dragon God Push
- Dragon Bone Push
- Shoulder Sash System
- Level 100 Helmet's

You defenitely NEED to work and/or change those Points. Wether you do it over reducing the Bonuses or the Damage Calculation, doesn't matter. But you have to change them, otherwise every Change you'll make will be useless.

The Damage System was just fine 4 Year's ago. So it's pretty simple, just work on everything that has been released since back then.

As Yemon & myself said before adding different Difficulties would be a Way for you to improve Group Play, while still providing Solo Play for Players who dont want to play in a Team.

Limiting Defence the same Way as MR is a Thing which i suggested a while ago. With that you would solve the Problem of having to deal with up to 90% Single Defence.

Greetings.

alright i see the way this thing is going
but why ruin PvE system when u wanna balance PvP ..
like u coulda created a better idea than this whole thing ..
as example adding bio for level 96 -98 - 100 that reduces the damage of crits from players by 10% for 96 - 98 and 20% for 100
u could avoid ruining the whole thing by using your creativity and your imagination ..
the game was not meant to be a party game , many many players plays solo or loves to play solo than party
this may kill your game ..
My regards .