Shaman balancing

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    • unforgiven wrote:

      - Dragon Aid gives 15.5% at Perfect Master - but has higher buff for self-casts. This was the drawback on reducing the cooldown back to what it was.
      - Buffing people outside of the group is intended. There are restrictions on how many people can be buffed hence those which would be from the Shaman Group have to be the ones getting.
      - You don't get +3% when buffing yourself, you get more.
      - Reflect isn't supposed to be cast in group. It was decided by the developer that it should stay as it is


      @Th3Original,
      Shamans were never intended to be used as a side character for Warriors, Ninjas, Suras, Lykans, Healing Shamans, you name it. 15,5% Critical Hit chance is better than 0%. It is still a buff, and a very powerful buff in PvE.


      I will still request an increase of the range for the buffs. It got refused but I will continue fighting for it.

      So... basically what you're traying to say is now we (all characters) could do everything in the game without shaman's buff? 8o I mean... we could do meley's, the zodiac temple and new bosses who are coming etc... without shaman's buff? it'll be great!!!.

      You're saying that shaman's buff wouldn't be necessary from now on? because if you're blocking and reducing and do whatever you want to do with shamans that's what it means to me. Blocking shamans give buff to others who don't belong to the party, to me that's what it means.. or what do you think could happen if a group of 14 go to meley and the're only have 1 chaman?

    • The problem here is expectation. Players expect that balancing means that every ones damage will get buffed and that's it. There are trade-offs that need to happen.

      Let's see what changed:
      + Shamans overall got more independence for PvE
      + Skill damage got beefed up
      + Melee damage got increased and was align to be easier to maximise in comparison with the character itself (STR+INT vs INT+DEX > DEX gives damage reduction!)
      + Skill like Dragon Roar doesn't need to be cast next to the target
      + Higher Damage and Bigger AoEs
      + Higher chance of Burning Fire which doesn't let bosses and monsters regenerate HP
      + Anti-magic stones which are more balancing in high-powered PvP but can be extremely unbalanced in low to mid-powered PvP
      + Increase of the blessing %

      - Reduction of Critical Hit chance from Dragon Aid (From 50%+ to 15,5%; but for oneself, it can reach 30~50%)
      - Dragon Shaman can deal more damage with Bells instead of Fans - no PvP Bells existing in the servers
      - You cannot buff players outside of party


      Generalised reduction of Critical Hit Damage in PvP. Continues the same in PvE.

    • unforgiven wrote:

      The problem here is expectation. Players expect that balancing means that every ones damage will get buffed and that's it. There are trade-offs that need to happen.

      Let's see what happened:
      + Shamans overall got more independence for PvE
      + Skill damage got beefed up
      + Melee damage got increased and was align to be easier to maximise in comparison with the character itself (STR+INT vs INT+DEX > DEX gives damage reduction!)
      + Skill like Dragon Roar doesn't need to be cast next to the target
      + Higher Damage and Bigger AoEs
      + Higher chance of Burning Fire which doesn't let bosses and monsters regenerate HP
      + Anti-magic stones which are more balancing in high-powered PvP but can be extremely unbalanced in low to mid-powered PvP
      + Increase of the blessing %

      - Reduction of Critical Hit chance from Dragon Aid (From 50%+ to 15,5%; but for oneself, it can reach 30~50%)
      - Dragon Shaman can deal more damage with Bells instead of Fans - no PvP Bells existing in the servers
      - You cannot buff players outside of party


      Generalised reduction of Critical Hit Damage in PvP. Continues in PvE.
      If we cannot be good at PvE before, what makes you think that we are better now?
      Dragon Shamans cand deal more damage with Bells? I have repeated it so many times and i'm not going to repeat it again, you know perfectly my opinion.
      -We can reach 30% criticals because you fixed Dragon's Aid to 15,5%.
      -Anti-Magic stones are now worse in Shamans and better in Black Magic Suras.
      -Dragon Shooting new method is horrible
      -Lasting Fire is an stupid secondary effect with really low damage
      -Our physical damage is practically the same as before with the new stat changes (we can't take advantage of ebony earrings and we are even worse than before because we have to use garnet earrings)
      -We cannot buff players outside the party. Big error which nobody likes and you don't understand
      -Skill damage got buffed? OMG, this is completely false

      Finally, if you think that nerfing buffs to the others is making Dragon Shamans more independent in PvE is an absurd conclusion. If you kill metins, you use mount, and while leveling, too. You can't kill anything with skills while you deal more damage with 2 bell hits. For the moment, Dragon Shamans are the worst class in PvP and one of the worst in PvE (maybe Ninjas and Healing Shamans are worse, but not the rest of characters).

      The post was edited 1 time, last by YoTeDoPo ().

    • unforgiven wrote:

      - Reduction of Critical Hit chance from Dragon Aid (From 50%+ to 15,5%; but for oneself, it can reach 30~50%)
      - Dragon Shaman can deal more damage with Bells instead of Fans - no PvP Bells existing in the servers
      - You cannot buff players outside of party
      I do not agree on this point. Mainly because you affect the whole game, if a person could raise in tower of demons with a shaman dragon, with this change will be much more complicated to him. If a group of characters could defeat the jotun with a dragon shaman, now it will be much more complicated due to the great low% of critics that it grants. You are affecting both the game individually and group this is the problem.
      Give me a reason why you think a group of people would choose to bring a dragon if it was not for their buffs. In this way they are killing the character, mainly because they have given a very low% of critics even for himself and the rest of the group little contribute to have auras or not if only gives 15.5%. It gives me more% a dew of critics before the auras of a dragon shaman.
      I would like you to make a list of the tradeoff in the case of a healing shaman and surely has much less impact than the change you are doing in a dragon shaman in both pve and pvp.
      And when I refer to impact, I mean the general functioning of a character both individually and as a group, not a single skill or that I just improve its base of damage.
      It is preferable that they leave the dragon as it was before putting all these changes unnecessary.
      The shamans the only thing they asked when they demanded an improvement was that they improved a little because they were behind in front of the other characters and are the least indicated to receive a nerf like they are doing in their buffs.
      If it is still enabled the option that you have told us a long time ago, I would prefer that the dragon shaman remain unchanged rather than improve it in attack skills and completely destroy it in its own buffs in the utility they provide for a group as this is what they are making with these changes and that list that you are giving.
      JonyBelmont, Body Warrior lv112. Metin2.es Server: Nemesis.

    • Hi,

      I discovered some new things, but before that I still have some issues.

      @unforgiven I don't understand how we earned independence in PvE. What changed for us in pvm? I still need someone If I want to defeat a boss or something ( like razador).

      So, the news are:

      If you cast dragon's roar from a far distance on the target the attack value will be decreased, which means that you need to keep a safe distance If you want to see a higher attack. ( Just like archers)

      If you choosed STR or Defence from the 92-94 biologist quests, lucky you :) Your attacks will be increased, If you choosed STR, and your buffs ( blessing and reflect) will be increased, If you choosed defence.


      Correct me If I am wrong @unforgiven.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by helena: I didn't ment DEX but defence. ().

    • wow, such a surprise, nerf buff and take us hp so we can get more dmg we tdont havbe hp earrings usefull for us (main stat is int an no int+ hp combination is available) and quests of 92 and 94 if hp chossen u dont get an extra push, furthermore taking awau hp and giving it to str just improves some skills, and make us loose hp and defense.

      Hope aura of sword will increase with int too.

      Now imagin for a second changing the stats of magical characters to he others, and the mav boosted the fisical atacs while te AV boosted magical ones, that would be a nice experiment no? hey webzen, u wanna try this???

      c.mon this seems like a really bad joke if you see ALL players complaining about somthing in particular, and you still dont wanna change it, how you expect to increase the number of players? how you wanna keep players happy if almost all feedback are being ignored or discredited acording to your personal point of view...

      Hope things change
      “Although there is no progress without change, not all change is progress.”
      :!: John Robert Wooden :!:
      Customer complaints are the schoolbooks from which we learn.
      Lou Guerstner

    • unforgiven wrote:

      The problem here is expectation. Players expect that balancing means that every ones damage will get buffed and that's it. There are trade-offs that need to happen.

      Let's see what changed:
      + Shamans overall got more independence for PvE
      + Skill damage got beefed up
      + Melee damage got increased and was align to be easier to maximise in comparison with the character itself (STR+INT vs INT+DEX > DEX gives damage reduction!)
      + Skill like Dragon Roar doesn't need to be cast next to the target
      + Higher Damage and Bigger AoEs
      + Higher chance of Burning Fire which doesn't let bosses and monsters regenerate HP
      + Anti-magic stones which are more balancing in high-powered PvP but can be extremely unbalanced in low to mid-powered PvP
      + Increase of the blessing %

      - Reduction of Critical Hit chance from Dragon Aid (From 50%+ to 15,5%; but for oneself, it can reach 30~50%)
      - Dragon Shaman can deal more damage with Bells instead of Fans - no PvP Bells existing in the servers
      - You cannot buff players outside of party


      Generalised reduction of Critical Hit Damage in PvP. Continues the same in PvE.

      Do you understand that the class who will be more negatively affected from the "generalised redution of critical hit damage in PvP" is the dragon shaman? Why don't you just do a "generalised reduction of aura of sword/whatever hit damage in PvP" as well? You should have put a minus as big as an house before that.
      Our damage is basically the same and much lower than healer's shaman. We lost our critics (our main feature) and got anti-magic stone "balanced".

      Why dragon's roar deal less damage from long distances? I don't think that Healer shamans and Black magic suras have that.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Priore ().

    • unforgiven wrote:

      - Reduction of Critical Hit chance from Dragon Aid (From 50%+ to 15,5%; but for oneself, it can reach 30~50%)

      The latter decreases like not for me by dragon's aid, what is it very wrong. The blessing has been increased, what is it good. I write it than it is wrong!
      The dragon's aid give 15% on level p with 90 int and 90 dex. Is it very well? My answer: It is not, not very well. The critical strike give 20% critical hits and red dew can give 20% critical hits. The dragon's aid must give above 20% critical hits, it would give circa 30-33% critical hits with 90 int and 90 dex.
      I am saying so than i am healing shaman. Dragon shaman need more by 15% critical hits from dragon's aid. I think it than the dragon's aid of critical hits is exaggeration reducing.

      @Unforgiven
      You writed: it can reach 30~50% critical hits one self. How can it reach this? Please write it down!

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Attis85 ().

    • @Priore before, Dragon Roar skill was not even able to be casted at a distance. You're complaining that a skill that was only possible to be used close, was given the range ability and at distance is not the same damage? But you already have an advantage that you're using it at distance and affecting a whole area without being nearby... So you got one of your best skills (Dragon Roar had the best damage despite the fact that theoretically Tallisman was supposed to be better) as a range skill and I saw what can do that skill in combat and still complaining? The diference in damage is like that...from close range damage inflicted was with 500 (fivehundred) more than at distance. Is it 500 reduction with distance such a huge disadvantage considering that now you have it ranged? OK, you can still use it as before and cast it against nearby targets so the damage won't be decreased with distance.

      Comparing, my Fire Arrow skill deals 32k at close range and 12k at distance..THREE TIMES less. And you're complaining for a 500 difference?

      You might have another things to complain...low chance for Dragon Aid or the way bufss can be casted now only within a group...but not this.

      I try to be as objective as I can and see it from all perspective. We all would love to have only advantages but it's clear that cannot be done. Fight for other things that are important

    • It's not "trash", it's what was tested. I've tested that with helena yesterday and she can confirm. She was the one that raised the issue with damage decreasing with distance. And the difference was 500. At least I tested it even if I'm not Shaman...you have tested it too and have different results? Please share them.

      The fact is like that. You had a skill that was casted around you. Now you can cast it at distance...a big distance as I tested it. And you're complaining that at that distance you have a damage decrease of 500. If it was 3000, now that would have been a problem, but 500? You fail to see the advantages you've got and instead of complaining about what really matters whine about a 500 damage loss for a skill that now has range and on top of that an increase in lasting fire chance. Want to convince someone that this skill was nerfed? Good luck with that

      P.S> Elephant and snake DOES in fact have something in common...the elephant's nose that looks like a snake (a big one indeed) :P

    • Rapier wrote:

      It's not "trash", it's what was tested. I've tested that with helena yesterday and she can confirm. She was the one that raised the issue with damage decreasing with distance. And the difference was 500. At least I tested it even if I'm not Shaman...you have tested it too and have different results? Please share them.

      The fact is like that. You had a skill that was casted around you. Now you can cast it at distance...a big distance as I tested it. And you're complaining that at that distance you have a damage decrease of 500. If it was 3000, now that would have been a problem, but 500? You fail to see the advantages you've got and instead of complaining about what really matters whine about a 500 damage loss for a skill that now has range and on top of that an increase in lasting fire chance. Want to convince someone that this skill was nerfed? Good luck with that

      P.S> Elephant and snake DOES in fact have something in common...the elephant's nose that looks like a snake (a big one indeed) :P
      You are not making any sense. I m talking about magic classes and no magic class has reduced damage from distance :)
      You should be familiar with this matter since it s the main thing all archers said to get arrows that cancel that reduction.

      We are here to test things, and everything should be balanced. If something in my opinion is not fair I just say it. :)

      Please, stop there because this discussion points nowhere.