Shaman balancing

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    • in my opinion, the only positive new i've heard for shamans is the extra bonus when we use our own buffs, but anyway if the %cahnce of geting a critical hit has decreased that much, i don't think we can keep playing a shaman as a main character.

      From my point of view (as a dragon shaman) two changes shuld be applied; or increase the bell AV or restore the cahnce of critical hit, otherwise dragon shaman will be worst on pve and pvp than now because need to go for str and use bells por pvp ....
      “Although there is no progress without change, not all change is progress.”
      :!: John Robert Wooden :!:
      Customer complaints are the schoolbooks from which we learn.
      Lou Guerstner

    • Quelin wrote:

      Stunning thing was the most important thing for PvE. Why did you do that? It was our special bonus, and it was working very rare already, and now you say it is reduced more than before?
      And why did you privatize the usage of fan and bell? I'm a healer shaman and im using bell and i wanna use bell, why it gives more additional bonusses to dragon shamans and fans for healers? That decision is really ridiculous.
      I like the new buffing thing, now we will be real shamans like other online games.
      But why no one talks about the bug in shaman skills? We know that our anti magic percents are reduced, but anti magic stones were added to game as a solution to this bug. I have a recommendation. Just delete all the anti magic stones and cure the bug in shaman damages? And we will be free to use the 3. character stone and the other players who always complain about anti magic stones will be happy too.

      which bug?

    • - Increased the cooldown to be similar to the duration of the skill
      - Modified to give buff to every party member around the caster


      Good luck killing bosses like Razador, Nemere, Jotun and Meley with those kind of modifications. In these bosses,you can have the best possible items that the probability of dying is very high. So then you wait a few minutes to have buffs again? Really bad, not only for buffers, but also for the class itself, because a shaman withoutany kind of buff is a feeble class.Remember that many people invested hours, days and even weeks to evolve and get items for their buffers / shamansand now they will be deprived of one of the great advantages they had that was to support any character at any time.I'll be honest, I don't know why you even consider putting this hypothesis on the table, I think it's logicalthat it will only kill the game (and the impaired are the GF and the players that have been investing over the years).I hope there is common sense and don't take this idea forward, with no agreement between community and the GF. The game is increasingly empty and often the fault is entirely of updates that the GF puts in the game without even receiving further feedback from the community, I hope that isn't the case now and that GF do things correctly. Sorry for any errors in English, I tried to write the best I know.

    • @curioso2 this isnt the worst problem, bc the players who own a main shaman will suffer a lot, imagine doing all kind of things pve pvp with such amount of cooldown.
      Seems they wanna delete that character from the game making shamanes useless...

      Just one more thing, the only character who have a buff with a comparable coldown is wolf, and its 1of6 skills, but shamans are 2 of 6 while wolf jst use 2 for bosses or metins for example and shamans need those two to be able to do something.
      “Although there is no progress without change, not all change is progress.”
      :!: John Robert Wooden :!:
      Customer complaints are the schoolbooks from which we learn.
      Lou Guerstner

    • Well, do not forget that Leadership-skill may help making buffs long-lasting.

      This is actually a clever idea to give more importance to this passive skill, which many players ignore.

      If Shamans' buffs cooldowns are well calculated (in particular, they are calculated in such a way that a player with >G6 leadership may assure a better performance for the buffs given by the Shaman of his group), everything should be fine.

      You could also try giving more importance to "Wizard" in order to make things easier for buffers, rather than just giving useless MPs. It could, for instance, significantly reduce cooldown of "group buff-only skills".

    • This is a Beta server, it is meant to test and provide feedback, but decent feedback.


      1 - Reduction of the stunning chance was something that WebZen wanted to add because of the 1 minute long cooldowns - looks like these are not intended, to which I agree, but it does not solve the core problem, I understand.
      2 - This is ONE of the balancing updates, there will be more tweaking. Games are usually tweaking their balancing from update to update and now it was our Time. There are drastic measures and there are measures that only sound drastic. Let's play and test it when it goes into Beta server, provide feedback and move on.
      3. No one wants to make any class "useless", let's test it with an open mind and provide good feedback while trying to think of the game as a whole and not just for one single class.

    • TcatalunyaT wrote:

      @curioso2 this isnt the worst problem, bc the players who own a main shaman will suffer a lot, imagine doing all kind of things pve pvp with such amount of cooldown.
      Seems they wanna delete that character from the game making shamanes useless...

      Just one more thing, the only character who have a buff with a comparable coldown is wolf, and its 1of6 skills, but shamans are 2 of 6 while wolf jst use 2 for bosses or metins for example and shamans need those two to be able to do something.
      I know that, I mentioned it myself. The shaman class will be the most impaired of all, especially in PvE. A shaman without buffs is as it is said in my country "cannon fodder", will die with great ease and the little damage it gave will still give less. I agree that shaman deserves an improvement especially in PvE, but tinkering with the support skills I don't think is the solution. If a shaman dies in a boss and can't change character, his hands are tied.

      @BlueShade Why do you want the buffs to last longer if you die and then have them no more? Leadership makes sense to be used for the group to take advantage of it, that is, to give more attack, more life, more attack speed, not for just one character to benefit from it. Either way, it's usually the buffer that distributes the lead over the group, not the players who are killing that will do that to the shaman.

      I don't think you should touch the buffs. They are fine as they are. Nerf them and put a greater cooldown will harm all the other classes and especially the shamans.

    • BlueShade wrote:

      Well, do not forget that Leadership-skill may help making buffs long-lasting.

      This is actually a clever idea to give more importance to this passive skill, which many players ignore.

      If Shamans' buffs cooldowns are well calculated (in particular, they are calculated in such a way that a player with >G6 leadership may assure a better performance for the buffs given by the Shaman of his group), everything should be fine.

      You could also try giving more importance to "Wizard" in order to make things easier for buffers, rather than just giving useless MPs. It could, for instance, significantly reduce cooldown of "group buff-only skills".
      Nothing can assure a better performance because when you are fighting with BIG bosses like Jotun Thrym, all characters are going to dead in less than 30 seconds because it dagame is too high (nobody can endure 100k). As I say before, is better 10 seconds of cooldoown and cast the buffs multiple times than having ilogical cooldowns and casting the buffs to all the group (but now maybe is not a problem, Dragon's Strenght is useless, Blessing is useless with bosses and Reflect is useless always, so we have that Dragon Shaman's are completely useless now, so nobody needs a buffer in groups because they are not neccessary any more).

      Is a good idea give buffs to all members of the party, but all these updates are focused on the role of a Shaman when is in group, and at the same time is destroying the possibilites of a Shaman when it is alone.

    • unforgiven wrote:

      This is a Beta server, it is meant to test and provide feedback, but decent feedback.


      1 - Reduction of the stunning chance was something that WebZen wanted to add because of the 1 minute long cooldowns - looks like these are not intended, to which I agree, but it does not solve the core problem, I understand.
      2 - This is ONE of the balancing updates, there will be more tweaking. Games are usually tweaking their balancing from update to update and now it was our Time. There are drastic measures and there are measures that only sound drastic. Let's play and test it when it goes into Beta server, provide feedback and move on.
      3. No one wants to make any class "useless", let's test it with an open mind and provide good feedback while trying to think of the game as a whole and not just for one single class.
      Im going to play and give u a feedback. But i can tell you right now, if you nerf the best buff from dragon shamans, that class will become useless.
      My main caracter is a dragon shaman lvl 96 with my fans, equipment with critical from pvp/pvm. its unfair that at this point in the game you change eveyting, my habs, my buff, my equipment.
      I went up to that level almost alone, you think with 10% critics and that cooldown could do it?

      I'm not against balance, but you should remove the "stones break magic" and raise a little damage to both shamans.And thats all.There will always be better classes in pvp/wars as there are also better ones in pvm/bosses.
      Shamans, SuraBM, Archer, cant kill bosses or break metins like others classes...

      PD: If your looking for less damage, nerf al damage of al classes, not only one. I dont understand one thing, if it is one of the updates, your plan to put it in and wait 5 or 6 months for a future beta from the other part of the balancing?

      Sorry for my inglish, we need a spanish forum.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Marce23 ().

    • Maybe you should add new mechanics to the shamans' skills for PVE, like with the archer.

      I like the AOE heal, but it's not enough, dragon shamans should have stuff like debuffs for the bosses or HP shields, something that needs timing in pve ! Cure shamans could have stuff like a fast resurection in instances, a different debuff for bosses which combinates with the dragon debuff.

      Sorry for bad english...

    • curioso2 wrote:

      Leadership makes sense to be used for the group to take advantage of it, that is, to give more attack, more life, more attack speed, not for just one character to benefit from it. Either way, it's usually the buffer that distributes the lead over the group, not the players who are killing that will do that to the shaman
      Well, that's a pretty widespread misconception, according to me. Making buffs last +61 extra seconds is actually quite useful for the whole group, that's why I kept reading Leadership skill books on my main character - it can be useful in lots of circumstances.

      Anyway, it's true that some bosses are intended to perform one hit-KO skills (such as Jotun) and I agree with you all when you say that it will make things more difficult.

      However, I guess they thought of this change in order to give more significance to Shamans as "main characters", since almost everyone owns a shaman as a secondary character just to provide buffs.

      Also, does a Jotun kill everyone even in an ideal scenario, in which everyone is wearing about 50% resistance to abilities? It may be somewhat "correct" to make things easier for characters who are strong enough to resist.

      Would you think that leaving buffs on Dragon shamans only - EVEN after they are dead - would be unbalanced?

    • The increased cooldown for shaman buffs sound like a bad idea and I can see why. But maybe (I said maybe) the game developers want to make the tactics and group roles more important. That will be a problem for the ones that are used to defeat bosses with just 2 chars (farner + shaman) but think other way around...in a group of 8 players now you might want to include more than one shaman...and EACH can buff the whole party right? So yes, the cooldown might be big but they will give buffs not at the same time.

      Now there is a problem when someone dies cause that player won't be buffed and will have to wait till one of the shamans can give him buff again. Same is valid for the shaman itself, if he dies the cooldown remains and he/she cannot buff on self....BUT...we should look from the group perspective and we (should) have more than one active shaman. If there are two or three, they could give buff independently and have different timings. Another option is to make greater use of being married...use the wedding ring during a fight and your cooldown is reset. This won't work in certain PvE dungeons but still works in fights or open space.

      As a final conclusion, I'd say to wait and see HOW it is implemented and see what that means in terms or gameplay and strategy. Yes, it could be necessary to change our view or give more importance to our mates...but that could be a good thing also right? I see too much individualism in this game that is presumed to be a team play focused game...maybe this will change that

    • Rapier wrote:

      I see too much individualism in this game that is presumed to be a team play focused game...maybe this will change that
      i really agree with that, as a main dragon shaman i see this new way to do dungeons instead of having to createanother char to be able to kill boses alone without too much money spend in the game, so yes, it may be opening a new way to play but on the other hand lots of players have a support so they may use it or create another one instead of team coopeeration.
      “Although there is no progress without change, not all change is progress.”
      :!: John Robert Wooden :!:
      Customer complaints are the schoolbooks from which we learn.
      Lou Guerstner

    • Now this:

      Leadership "blocker" status will no longer increase stun duration from Magical Sources


      If you want to take it, so why don't give us a new Leadership status? Resistence to critics or Poison/Blood Chance will be good.
      And take in mind you will need reduce Jotum Thrim... With no 1 min stun who will tank that thing?
      That time os stun is horrible in PVP, but is important to PVM system...
      Here my feedback about that.

    • Leadership "blocker" will still be useful to cause "permanent" dispel/slow or rather to make self-buffs last longer, and that's a good news.

      It seems to me they are trying to remove all of the causes of "instant death" in PvP, the permanent stun (PS) being one of them. While it's somewhat fun, I've to admit that it's devastating, because you can't do anything against that kind of stun - even perch fishes (which are quite rare, by the way) do not work against it.

      So, I'm somehow happy with this change.

      After all, Healers are now way more useful thanks to group-healing and the new bonuses given by Attack Up.

      However, it's true that PS has proven to be quite useful in PvE, for example against really strong bosses such as Idalls and Jotuns.

      I also feel that there should be a kind of replacement on LeaderShip, be it:

      - a prolonged poisoning time (that could give more importance to Lycans and Ninjas, who are "specialists" of these statuses - do you think it would be too exaggerated?);
      - a new effect on self-buffs durability (given by "Wizard") to balance the long cooldown time of Dragon Aid and Blessing
      - ...

    • I disagree with some of the changes put in the beta version of the game. First of all, I want to complain about the modification of dragon shaman. 1) Dragon’s aid: It provides 29,4% chance of critical hit. I get this value with a Perfect Master skill and with 154 INT. The duration stayed 185 sec…But this cooldown time? 186 sec? Really? I understand, that you want to prefer the group game feeling..But you should have tought of a poor shaman..who dies in every second minutes. Should she wait until her buff skills reload? I tested the skill with 90 int too..I got 18% crit. Mm.. and it is PERFECT MASTER. What about Master 1? You made this skill almost meaningless. What’s more you made a difference between buff and buff. The crit is being strengthened by DEX while the blessing is by intelligence? 2) Blessing: As an owner of a dragon shaman I loved that blessing lasted 310 sec.. and now? 150? Don’t make me cry.. In the past my problem was that crit lasted for less time than blessing..But you should increase the Dragon’s aid skill’s duration not decrease the blessing’s.. Here could be mentioned again the cooldown time.. JOKE 3) Attack skills: It’s better maybe. I like the renewed cooldown times, especially by dragon’s roar, the 20 sec. was lot. The lasting fire chance is better too. It was in the past around 35% and now around 100%. (154 INT) It got a new effect, maybe now we could see it in Razador. But despite the 100% not every skill make burn the enemy. (??) Secondly: healing shaman1) Swiftness: a. positive side: DEX can strengthen moving speed we get around 60% with 90 DEX (without it 43%)b. negative side: cooldown…2) Attack up: stay useless 3) Leadership: the connection between length of speed and faint… With P leadership faint could last 64 sec..Which is a great help with Thrym and make a healer shaman a great and useful member of the group..