Shaman balancing

    Dear players,

    please read >> here <<.

    Thank you for being a part of this!

    • unforgiven wrote:

      Th3Original wrote:

      So, with this update we will have 3 reasons to leave the game..
      1st: PvP will become Magic Sura Vs Healer Shamans... Warriors, ninjas, suras Wep etc will no longer can use one of the advantages, damage in hit... This because critics now are very rare to hit and when hit, is has very low damage.
      2nd: Lycans will no longer be usefull PvP and PvM.
      3rd: Buffers will no longer have use, people wasted lots of time to put their Buffers at lv 100, and now they want kill onde of the best shaman buff (Dragon Aid)

      I can tolerate one mistake, but 3 mistakes?
      If you want a different game why change this one? Just create a server and do that changes there... On final we will see how many players that server can have... I play metin2 because i like the game, if i like a big changed game so i will play privates... [/color][/color]
      1 - Critical Hit chance has been restored how it was before. The big difference is the buff from the Dragon Shaman which gives between 20~to 3X% maximum instead of the current 5X%. The Critical Hit Damage only changes in PvP. I though that everyone wanted to have a better PvP experience... looks like that this is not the case...
      2 - They will still be useful, test damages had a reduction of 10~15%. The biggest issue currently is the duration.
      3 - Buffers will still have a use, 20~30% increase in critical hits is better than 0. There is a use still. Cooldown is currently being adjusted.


      Metin2 is still Metin2 in its core. Obviously there were some changes, some additions, some updates but it is still Metin2.


      @NieznanyAs,
      This was not the same update you have in this beta. This was a mistake. They are not comparable.
      1- Critical Hit chance restored? Just for PvM right? At PvP i still do a critical hit with normal hits very rare. And yes, there is a difference at better PvP experience, if you remove damage from Physical Class's and give more damage to Magic class's (where acrually is the best pvp class's), that is not a better PvP experience. The problem with critic damage is the damage itself, you need feel a difference when you do one critic, actually this difference is far away.
      2- Damage, time, SP/Sec and the fact of skill can just go off if you run out of mana is a problem.
      3-You say buffers still have use, yes... But you also said Webzen want a reduction in Critical Chance, so if they put it like 10-15% the usefull will be the same? Or i just understood wrong?

      In this way, Metin2 will be just a name... I hope i'm very wrong.

    • unforgiven wrote:

      1 - Critical Hit chance has been restored how it was before. The big difference is the buff from the Dragon Shaman which gives between 20~to 3X% maximum instead of the current 5X%. The Critical Hit Damage only changes in PvP. I though that everyone wanted to have a better PvP experience... looks like that this is not the case...
      The point is that now crits are useless in PvP, all PvP equipment with crits (heaven's tear bracelet and earrings, boots with 10 crits, pvp weapons with crits, necklaces, ... ARE NOW USELESS.
      You said that our equipment would be valuable after the update, and it is completely false: fans in dragon shamans and a lot of critical hit equipment is going tu be useless with this update. There is a lot of money, time and patience wasted because you want to do random things to balance the game, and do not assume that the problem in the game is costumes, power items, anti magic stones (they are only neccessary in Shamans because they had horrible damage, but i think there are better solutions than antimagic stones) , pets, ... All these things are the problems of the absurd damage.

    • unforgiven wrote:

      Th3Original wrote:

      So, with this update we will have 3 reasons to leave the game..
      1st: PvP will become Magic Sura Vs Healer Shamans... Warriors, ninjas, suras Wep etc will no longer can use one of the advantages, damage in hit... This because critics now are very rare to hit and when hit, is has very low damage.
      2nd: Lycans will no longer be usefull PvP and PvM.
      3rd: Buffers will no longer have use, people wasted lots of time to put their Buffers at lv 100, and now they want kill onde of the best shaman buff (Dragon Aid)

      I can tolerate one mistake, but 3 mistakes?
      If you want a different game why change this one? Just create a server and do that changes there... On final we will see how many players that server can have... I play metin2 because i like the game, if i like a big changed game so i will play privates... [/color][/color]
      1 - Critical Hit chance has been restored how it was before. The big difference is the buff from the Dragon Shaman which gives between 20~to 3X% maximum instead of the current 5X%. The Critical Hit Damage only changes in PvP. I though that everyone wanted to have a better PvP experience... looks like that this is not the case...
      2 - They will still be useful, test damages had a reduction of 10~15%. The biggest issue currently is the duration.
      3 - Buffers will still have a use, 20~30% increase in critical hits is better than 0. There is a use still. Cooldown is currently being adjusted.


      Metin2 is still Metin2 in its core. Obviously there were some changes, some additions, some updates but it is still Metin2.


      @NieznanyAs,
      This was not the same update you have in this beta. This was a mistake. They are not comparable.

      I'm quite sure that Th3Original was talking about critical hit damage in PvP.

      1st +300 damage when you hit a critical is not a better PvP experience, it just makes critical hits useless. Everyone will go for that bonus in pvp no more. (= Dragon's aid useless in PvP)

      3rd Less cooldown and even lesser critical so we will end up with 10-15% critical hits?

    • I just wanted to say that it is so ignorant to make people spend lots of money on new weapons and ditch their current ones. I mean how many people have pvp bells? Probably not a lot. I don't like this change as I've recently bought fan for 90lv and I spent plenty of money on it and now I hear that the damage from it is going to be weaker than from a bell..
      It is better to leave things as they are now or give a boost to bells and fans.

    • You must've been kidding...really. Those Webzen guys, have they EVER been playing this game? (honest question). Where do they get those ideas from? They have some good ones but implemented them in a way they're useless for anyone that plays.

      Now I've tested with the shaman a little bit more and what can I say...

      1. It is NOT possible to give buff to someone if he/she is not in same group. Really? And how are we supposed to lvl up? Some (or many) are levling WITH NO GROUP just to make (gather) more exp instead to have it splitted with the rest of the group. How are we supposed to do that? Now we're FORCED to make party with the shaman even if we DON'T WANT to lvl up the shaman?
      2. In PvP and also PvE there are many cases in which a shaman from another group gives buff to others as well outside the group. Now that option is no longer possible.
      3. The radius for the buff (in which the party members receive buff) is insanely small. Make it like Lycan's Blue Soul Buff or make it up to the range of the group bonuses, that will make sense. As it is, if you get a buff you should be considered lucky. Especially in a combat situation where players are scattered across the battlefield. How anyone is supposed to know WHEN to come closer to the shaman (to get the buff) and more than that WHERE is that shaman? Has anyone an idea what means a 20 vs 20 combat in any map? Or even worse, in map1 of any kingdom with shops and other players around? How is one supposed to find his group buff and get closer IN TIME to get a buff?

      All the above are valid for both shaman classes buff and heal...

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Rapier ().

    • Rapier wrote:

      You must've been kidding...really. Those Webzen guys, have they EVER been playing this game? (honest question). Where do they get those ideas from? They have some good ones but implemented them in a way they're useless for anyone that plays.

      Now I've tested with the shaman a little bit more and what can I say...

      1. It is NOT possible to give buff to someone if he/she is not in same group. Really? And how are we supposed to lvl up? Some (or many) are levling WITH NO GROUP just to make (gather) more exp instead to have it splitted with the rest of the group. How are we supposed to do that? Now we're FORCED to make party with the shaman even if we DON'T WANT to lvl up the shaman?
      2. In PvP and also PvE there are many cases in which a shaman from another group gives buff to others as well outside the group. Now that option is no longer possible.
      3. The radius for the buff (in which the party members receive buff) is insanely small. Make it like Lycan's Blue Soul Buff or make it up to the range of the group bonuses, that will make sense. As it is, if you get a buff you should be considered lucky. Especially in a combat situation where players are scattered across the battlefield. How anyone is supposed to know WHEN to come closer to the shaman (to get the buff) and more than that WHERE is that shaman? Has anyone an idea what means a 20 vs 20 combat in any map? Or even worse, in map1 of any kingdom with shops and other players around? How is one supposed to find his group buff and get closer IN TIME to get a buff?

      All the above are valid for both shaman classes buff and heal...
      Yes this update is stupid, noboby aprove (NOBODY here has approved the change in buffs, but they are continuing nerfing them, here is the utily of posting feedback...) it but they continue adding random changes. I think they want to destroy this game in 1-2 years, those of webzen (since I'm playing) have never done a good update, and the problem is here so many years, updates comes and they are worse than previous versions, here is their spirit of improvement of WebZen.

    • Michu wrote:

      NieznanyAs wrote:

      Do you think players dont end game if buffs will be reduced to 20% ? Soon this game will be dead. Including in uptade bufs at 20/30% you will have 30/40% less players on servers... Great! You will Kill this game ! :) Players will go on Private servers ;P
      Stop crying and blackmailing. Just write something constructive.

      Hmm
      Try to read my last 3 posts on this topic. :)

    • NieznanyAs wrote:

      Michu wrote:

      NieznanyAs wrote:

      Do you think players dont end game if buffs will be reduced to 20% ? Soon this game will be dead. Including in uptade bufs at 20/30% you will have 30/40% less players on servers... Great! You will Kill this game ! :) Players will go on Private servers ;P
      Stop crying and blackmailing. Just write something constructive.
      Hmm
      Try to read my last 3 posts on this topic. :)
      20% for dragon's aid? That's the bonus that i get from an red dew and i don't always use it ofc and doesn't affect my pvp/pvm abilities that much, making it at 20 and it will be more useless in pvp then attack up maybe for pvm too.

    • Ok i try and i see this:
      1 post Including in uptade bufs at 20/30% you will have 30/40% less players on servers... Great! You will Kill this game ! Players will go on Private servers
      2 post This and more you can read on Polish Web site
      board.pl.metin2.gameforge.com/…rze-dyskusja/?pageNo=1006
      3 post On polish server we had Uptade with "balanced buffs" long cooldown and nerfs bufs - polish society told that if this stay 30/40% players will end game. You can read that on Polish board just ask Ignof. You Should ask Polish Society what we told about nerfing Bufs when we have this on our servers(that was a mistake and in 10h you "Fix"that) .
      $$$ [...] $$$
      Really great balanc...
      If i will have bufs with 30% with full int i will end this game becouse this game will eb unplayable...
      Just think how you can play and exp on V3 and on Atlantis V2 witchout exelent alchemist ... with 30% Bufs

    • Shamans cannot give critic and blessing boost to outside of group.

      Was it very important to prevent this?
      Who need this?
      What problem will be solved with this method?

      Please do not apply any updates about the Shamans. If it makes sense, it can be accepted, but it's not.
      You will disrupt the habits of the players..
      “Why are you wearing that stupid bunny suit?”
      “Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?”

    • unforgiven wrote:

      So, as last question:
      - If I request that there no change will happen to Dragon Shaman the players here will be happy? (this doesn't mean that it will happen!)
      this will include:
      - no increase in damage in any way
      - no changes on how the skills work
      - no change at all only for Dragon Shaman
      After all the comments, i think you don't understad that dragon shamans need changes, but not bell damage and buff nerfs. The new changes in Flying Talisman, Dragon Shooting and Dragon Roar's are nice, but together with the nerf of buffs and the stupid idea of class specific weapon we have a negative balance with all the changes (with 30% of additional damage obviously dragon shamans are going to be better, but this means throw all our fans and redo all our weapons, an this is the point that I think is the worst in the whole update).

      I have repeated this a lot of times: Dragon's Shamans need the damage, but forcing eldest players to change all their weapons (done with a lot of money, patience and time) is not a good solution (while Healing Shamans can use their fans with more damage).

    • unforgiven wrote:

      So, as last question:
      - If I request that there no change will happen to Dragon Shaman the players here will be happy? (this doesn't mean that it will happen!)
      this will include:
      - no increase in damage in any way
      - no changes on how the skills work
      - no change at all only for Dragon Shaman
      Nope some update's are ok but with the change in critical for pvp dragon shaman if we get no improve we will got worse in pvp.

      About dragon aid i like the idea to have at least 15-20% over when using on self, we are the masters of critics we need at least 40%.

      We got some good changes like dragon roar hinting from distance and improved lasting fire, we just need more MAV on our bells or extra dmg lets say 40-50% for dragon shaman and 15-20% for healer (as long as our skills hit higher then healer, webzen can make some calc's and find out the sweet spot, can't be that hard to find out).

      If u check on wiki u can see dragon shaman should deal more dmg then healer that's what we want, because we don't have their advantage like all skill hitting from distance and faster skill recharge, we got dragon aid and blessing they have cure and Swiftness they are pretty much the same for pvp.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by CantBuffU ().