Shaman balancing

    This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

    Dear players,

    please read >> here <<.

    Thank you for being a part of this!

    • unforgiven wrote:

      There is nothing to fix in the skills. They are working as intended. Reflection gives a part of the normal damage back to the attacker which increase - passively - the damage output. Attack Up can increase any other classes damage which means it can really break things if it gets increased.


      I have already shown that the Healing/Dragon Shaman have pretty similar damage outputs. It will depend mainly on the players' gear to maximize which parts suits them the best.
      You only talk about the possibilities of a class when is convinient for you. When is better for you say if something better for a party then you say this, and you cannot fool us, Attack Up is completely useless for a Healing Shaman itself, and Reflect is an horrible skill with an horrible effect. Attack Up and Reflect are the worst skills in the game (and Dragon's Aid in PvP), all the rest of classes have better skills than these pieces of rubbish (they are nice if you want to be surrounded by different colours).

      You are the only one who sees that both Shamans have the same damage, when Lightning Throw has more damage than Dragon' Roar, and Swiftness and Cure >>>>> Blessing and Dragon's Aid in PvP, combined with the skills of Healing Shaman have 100% accuracy and Shooting Dragon system is horrible.

    • Healers will be the Best PvP class after this update... Unfs what i see is:
      -Dragon Roar AVG 9,886
      -Summons Lighning: 12,015
      Difference: 2,129

      This is a big difference... Dragon Shaman have Eternal Fire? Healer can remover it just using Cure... Dragon have blessing? 47% reduction normal hit damage? Healer have 7-9k hp restaured just by healing... And a too lower cooldown... Healers have 100% chance accuracy in skills...

      What you saying right now is Invalid Unfs... I don't play healer, but i prefer 1000% time do PvP vs Dragon Shamans because i have 1000% chances of win compared to an healer...

      Here i'm not saying Dragon Shamans need a boost in PvP..: I'm saying Healers need a nerf in PvP.

      You trying ballance game removing damage from lycan, suras wep, ninjas, warriors... And giving boosts to magic classes? Healers and Magic Suras are the best PvP classes... I don't see any PvP ballance in this 1st ballance update...

    • Attack Up increases also damage output from skills which are melee and this can be problematic. Reflect increases the DPS and it is helpful if you are able to withstand the damage that you receive.

      Yes, both classes have the damage output +/- similar. I can agree with you that in PvP, healer shaman will have the upper hand against a dragon shaman BUT in PvE these rolls reverse. As said before, you cannot, at the moment, separate completely PvP and PvE damage hence no more changes for now.

      Healing Shaman has 100% accuracy but you have more AoEs.

    • unforgiven wrote:

      Attack Up increases also damage output from skills which are melee and this can be problematic. Reflect increases the DPS and it is helpful if you are able to withstand the damage that you receive.

      Yes, both classes have the damage output +/- similar. I can agree with you that in PvP, healer shaman will have the upper hand against a dragon shaman BUT in PvE these rolls reverse. As said before, you cannot, at the moment, separate completely PvP and PvE damage hence no more changes for now.

      Healing Shaman has 100% accuracy but you have more AoEs.
      Wow, I'm slightly better than a Healing Shaman on PvE, but worse thant the rest of classes. With these conditions Dragon Shamans are worse than before in PvE and PvP, and Healing Shamans are also worse in PvE but better in PvP.

    • What about a 30% reduction of critical hit chance in comparison with -17% that Dragon Shamans have? What about having more long distance skills? What about having an almost 100% (if not 100% chance) of having lasting fire? What about having knockback on your skill to push the character back with 100% chance? All of these don't work?


      This is not the last time we have a balancing change. Things can, and most likely will, change in future. This is not a one single update situation but a continuously iterative process.

    • We talking here about Healer and Dragon PvP differences right?
      Healer is strongest compared to Dragon at PvP vs any char...

      Remember, you cut Normal Hits Critic Damage and Chance... So almost all classes lost one advantage Vs Healers... I believe with this new update, all fisic chars will have less chances at pvp vs magic ones... But i think you are really not seeing what i see here.

    • unforgiven wrote:

      What about a 30% reduction of critical hit chance in comparison with -17% that Dragon Shamans have? What about having more long distance skills? What about having an almost 100% (if not 100% chance) of having lasting fire? What about having knockback on your skill to push the character back with 100% chance? All of these don't work?


      This is not the last time we have a balancing change. Things can, and most likely will, change in future. This is not a one single update situation but a continuously iterative process.
      And what about auto-attack? what about lv 92-94 attack value missions? what about free magic resistance on armours, what about dews (magic resistance and attack value) and costumes? what about piercing hits? what about attack value on armours? what about magic attack value on diamond alchemy? and what about ebony earrings? what about sapphire bracelet (which have free HP)? what about 100% blackout? what about all ther advantages in PvE?

    • I'm talking about magic chars in general... I point dragon shaman because with this update, they lost PvP power by nerfing critic damage... But here you boosted Healers and Magic Suras... So i just can see an unballance here...

      Yes i'm just talking about magic Vs Fisic... But you talking about Ballance right? So right now we have a big unballance when talking about this two types of damage.

    • There is a big misunderstand of what balancing means. Balancing does not mean that Character A is the same as Character B which is the same as Character C and so on. Balancing also means that Character A has advantage on OptionZ over Character B but has disadvantage on Option Z over Character C, and so on.

      Regarding difference between magic characters and melee characters. We know about this and we know that magic characters are usually better in PvP at the moment but lots of factors influence this and cannot be changes by just increasing A... because it would have an harming effect on B.


      @YoTeDoPo: Did you know that in PvP, in average, players have around 20~22% magic resistance? And that just a very small percentage of players have more than 50%?

    • unforgiven wrote:

      There is a big misunderstand of what balancing means. Balancing does not mean that Character A is the same as Character B which is the same as Character C and so on. Balancing also means that Character A has advantage on OptionZ over Character B but has disadvantage on Option Z over Character C, and so on.

      Regarding difference between magic characters and melee characters. We know about this and we know that magic characters are usually better in PvP at the moment but lots of factors influence this and cannot be changes by just increasing A... because it would have an harming effect on B.


      @YoTeDoPo: Did you know that in PvP, in average, players have around 20~22% magic resistance? And that just a very small percentage of players have more than 50%?
      Have u ever tried to convince WEBZEN that the pvp bonus from costumes are shit ! and the anti magical rezistence is a crap? Maybe the first way to balance male vs magic is to remove the anti magical stones from weapoins and let only the armour stone whit 20% anti magical.And add a lets say black potion that can be used only on lets say lvl 90+ and to be like other potions 8,10,12,15,20% anti magical rezistence.Take of the pvp bonuses from costumes like magical rezistence,sword rezisntece,etc and let only atack value,casting speed,hp absorbtion,etc.Now in this way u can echilibrate both mid lvl and hight lvl PVP.
      Take note please unforgiven.

    • sorry @unforgiven you may be the one who misunderstood the meaning of balance (a state where things are of equal weight or force)

      pd: if reflect worket as the % indicates, at least would be usefull, but as you can check, you can hafe 50% or more dmg reflected with all equipment and if someone hits you (mob or character) you won't reflect 1/2 the dmg you recieve (obiously jst auto atak, not skill) so.... even if nerfed the % of dmg reflected still not working. The real dmg reflected is by far the best joke of the game.
      “Although there is no progress without change, not all change is progress.”
      :!: John Robert Wooden :!:
      Customer complaints are the schoolbooks from which we learn.
      Lou Guerstner

    • @unforgiven

      Dragon chamans aren't better than melee char (except weapon sura) in pvp, when dragon chamans are worse than melee chars in PVE if they have a buff (everybody has a buff in 2017).

      Examples: weapon sura is OP in pve, but really bad in pvp, so it's balanced.
      Healers are bad in pve, OP in pvp, so it's balanced.
      Archers are baaaad in pve, bad in pvp (at least before this patch), it was NOT balanced at all. I hope it is now (I didn't try).

      Dragon chamans are BAD in pve (beacause of the support role), and BAD in pvp (2nd worst class in my opinion). They are only good at supporting in pve (not in pvp anymore), so yeah now they are worse than before in pve and in pvp (thanks to buff nerfs).

      Why dragon are so bad in pvp? Beacause (like archers with arrow defense) the magic resistance (you say most of people have 20% OMG you gave us a value !!!!) is a PVE defense ! So it's a very common defense. And you know like me that PVE HL gear also have half human bonus which means that it can be used for the pvp as well as for the pve. Just give us the value of people's sword or dagger defense and we will compare ;).


      And about attack up and reflect, if they need no upgrade, why do you upgrade feather walk then?
      Attack up or reflect were better than feather walk but only for very HL characters. Feather walk was an amazing skill for a PVE archer at low level (attack up and reflect are bad at low level compared to other skills in pve AND pvp, that's why everybody upgrade this at lv 100+), so why upgrading feather walk?

    • unforgiven wrote:

      You cannot talk about balancing with a single character on your mind. It has to have all the other characters in mind too. Just because you change VS. Healer, what would happen VS. Warrior? What about VS. Sura? Everything is connected and cannot simple be reduced to "Healer Shaman can beat Dragon Shaman".
      So silly me thought this update is about balancing not adding more gap between characters, i have asked like few weeks ago but i didn't get any answer.
      If BM is 90% pvp and 10% pvm (he has Dark Protection)- he should be in top 3 pvp character?
      If Body Warrior is 90% pvm - aka top 2-3 pvm class he showld be bad in pvp aka worse then Archery Ninja is/was?
      If Archery Ninja is 100% pvp (no benefits for him in pvm) he should be best pvp character?
      If Weaponry sura is 100% pvm he should be worse pvp character? (not that hi's not, maybe slightly better then Archery Ninja)

      Give us an insight what this balancing is all about, atm except nerfing critics in pvm to try to lower the overall dmg, u haven't done one thing to balance pvp or pvm but in contrary u added more gap.

      Btw my dream always was to team up with 3 healers (they will stay in protection zone, with automatic attack and spamming cure every 5-7 sec) and me near them, close enough so i can get heal and killing enemy's with an archer or something that hit from distance and get instant pv regeneration. (cure should be banned for using inside protection zone, just like Flame Spirit is else it will be exploited in a bad way in pvp). Anyway this can be done in mass pvp too how it will be to have 4-5-6 healers in your team and 2-3-4 good pvp character, they will be unstoppable, won't matter how much dmg u make they will get healed faster.

    • The part with cure from a healer in the safe zone could be a tricky one indeed. Especially now when the trend is to deal less damage than before (globally speaking).

      As we were told, one of the points of this ballancing was to give more importance to group play and strategy and stopping the "one-hit-kill-all" strategy adopted by some OP classes like Mental Warriors or Lycans (especially when used in conjunction with the so called "power mount bug"). That means that, after update, as we also experienced, the global damage inflicted by all classes has decreased, mostly due to altering the calculation methods, reducing the damage given by critical hits/skills, the chance to land such criticals and so on.

      That would mean that it will be harder to kill someone cause after the update, the chance or posibility to land a "one-hit-kill" will be minimal regardless of what SciFi gear you have equipped. At least this is what the beta tests showed for most classes so what @CantBuffU said, it is very much possible. In the new scenario, a group having 2-3 healers sitting in the safe zone and just healing the whole group would be hard or even impossible to defeat and will be abused. This will not have any other effect except to lower the level of PvP cause it'll be frustrating to fight without an end or purpose.

      You might say that this happens only in safe zones but in the past years at least on RO servers most fights are done in the first map. Players are more and more unwillingly to takle the fights outside of their cities/kingdom and in very rare cases fights happen in other maps...not talking about Guild Wars that are inexistent for years. But that's a different story and as I said in other places, I do hope that Webzen/GF will add some incentives for the Guild Wars as they're dead now completely

    • Rapier wrote:

      The part with cure from a healer in the safe zone could be a tricky one indeed. Especially now when the trend is to deal less damage than before (globally speaking).

      As we were told, one of the points of this ballancing was to give more importance to group play and strategy and stopping the "one-hit-kill-all" strategy adopted by some OP classes like Mental Warriors or Lycans (especially when used in conjunction with the so called "power mount bug"). That means that, after update, as we also experienced, the global damage inflicted by all classes has decreased, mostly due to altering the calculation methods, reducing the damage given by critical hits/skills, the chance to land such criticals and so on.

      That would mean that it will be harder to kill someone cause after the update, the chance or posibility to land a "one-hit-kill" will be minimal regardless of what SciFi gear you have equipped. At least this is what the beta tests showed for most classes so what @CantBuffU said, it is very much possible. In the new scenario, a group having 2-3 healers sitting in the safe zone and just healing the whole group would be hard or even impossible to defeat and will be abused. This will not have any other effect except to lower the level of PvP cause it'll be frustrating to fight without an end or purpose.

      You might say that this happens only in safe zones but in the past years at least on RO servers most fights are done in the first map. Players are more and more unwillingly to takle the fights outside of their cities/kingdom and in very rare cases fights happen in other maps...not talking about Guild Wars that are inexistent for years. But that's a different story and as I said in other places, I do hope that Webzen/GF will add some incentives for the Guild Wars as they're dead now completely
      Good point there i almost forgot that they try to lower overall dmg but in the same time increase cure effectiveness.

    • Ponze wrote:

      ...But you can go far away if you want and destroy the healers if they come ^^.
      That's a theoretical strategy and so anyone could also say "lure the enemies away from their kingdom so they're not protected by the safe zone"....but in a real world situation this does not happen. Why? because they will simply won't follow or won't come out from the safe zone. They will just sit there (and their mates close to them in the proximity to benefit from cure) and won't fight. So the people who want PvP are forced to stay and fight there cause they could not do that otherwise.

      Nevermind, we'll play "chicken" from now on