Lycan DMG on Metins (Original vs Beta) + PvM Feedback Lycan

meh · Sep 8th 2017, 1:31pm

So.. After a little bit of testing with my Weaponary Sura:

Weaponary Sura
90 Vit
90 Int
90 Str

Alchemy:
- perfect Excellent

Equipment:

- 115 Monster Armor+9 (30 AV as Bonus, 10% Stron against Monster)
- Emerald Earrings+9 with 3 Sockets (8 Hit Damage)
- Fire Shoes+9 (Strong against Monster 12%)
- Souls Belt+9 (8% Strong against Monster)
- 25% Shoulder Sash with 12% AV Damage
- Titan Shield, 12 Int, 12 Str
- Poisonn Sword+9, 48 AV Damage
- Costume, 50 AV
- Buff with Full Int Equipment (missing 12 on Weapon though)
- Full Itemshop Push, Energy Crystal, best Dews, Half Moon Ring, Tiger Bone Earrings

Leadership and Buffs were missing, i can redo the Tests with those Factors again.

Result:

~29k at Lv. 120 Metin

According to those results i should ask for a Sura Buff myself, because you Lycans are way stronger than me.. jokes aside. The Weaponary Sura is a "tank" with moderate Damage, so its okay this Way same goes for the Lycan imO. Even thoug Sura AV from Blade is higher you still deal less Damage then the Lycan. I don’t get half the Damage Boost from Int/Str like you Guys get from Vit/Dex.

So I assume the Result isn’t as bad as you expected it to be, right?

iLow · Sep 8th 2017, 1:35pm

u get 29k with max?

Gnomma on DE does 33k on 120er Metin and he has chosen 2x TP as 92/94 biology quests.

You're doing sth wrong.

And don't forget that the weapon sura has the extreme advantage of absorbing 12% of the Dmg with every hit.

Because of that it's only fair, that the Sura does less dmg than a bodywar or lycan.

meh · Sep 8th 2017, 1:56pm

You know that the Damage Calculation in General has been changed.. i was reaching Numbers such as ~39k too in the first Week of the Beta

Nothing has changed since regarding my PvE Equipment.

iLow wrote:

And don't forget that the weapon sura has the extreme advantage of absorbing 12% of the Dmg with every hit.

Because of that it's only fair, that the Sura does less dmg than a bodywar or lycan.

Maybe read a little further to see, that i was telling you that Sura Damage is totally fine the Way it is, because of him being a "Tank with moderate" Damage

Got myself a 12 Str Skin & Leadership max. 30412
Razador max. 16432
Beran max. 26k

Furthermore i cannot get Things like:

- Sweets
- Mulled Wine
- 5 AV Damage Set Bonus

Sura in the Video is missing out on some Items too.. otherwise it would be 36k i'll just leave this here.

We could go on and on about Damage Comparisons, but my Point is. The Lycan is no where near "dead" "ruined" "unplayable" "nerfed to death" or whatever People have been telling me since the last 7 Days.
It got a nerf, like it was supposed to be and it's not like we're about to ruin the Lycan.

Th3Original · Sep 8th 2017, 2:14pm

I tested my chars damage difference...
My Sura Lv 104 reach a max 8,5 damage with some itens
My Lycan 92 with the same itens reach 7,8
Here we have a bit difference in level and my lycan don't have missions 92 94 but i improvised and used a Dew with a 120 attack.
I think +150 damage on Crimson can be a solution to this difference.
I can't test bigger damages because lycan is only lv 92, but here i have 700 damage difference, highter damage highter difference.

Yemon · Sep 8th 2017, 2:18pm

meh wrote:

The Lycan is a "tank"

I don't think so.

The only thing that could define the Lycans as a "tank" are the 13% Chance of Evading Arrows.

And I would say that this group buff is more a "support" skill then a special self buff.

But he also got -Defence on cws before the update.

meh wrote:

So I assume the Result isn’t as bad as you expected it to be, right?

Well I am not sure yet.
14-20% is a lot.

I would like to test it a little bit more and see more comparison between other classes.

jeroenado · Sep 8th 2017, 2:39pm

meh wrote:

We could go on and on about Damage Comparisons, but my Point is. The Lycan is no where near "dead" "ruined" "unplayable" "nerfed to death" or whatever People have been telling me since the last 7 Days.
It got a nerf, like it was supposed to be and it's not like we're about to ruin the Lycan.

Ok some of the reactions were more than exaggerated, but note that this character even with its high damage on horse, is still a rather unpopular character. Nerfing it like this is too much and not a solution imo,

If lycans were really that 'OP' as some are claiming then it would be way more popular than it is now.

NinjaFrau · Sep 8th 2017, 2:44pm

There is also the Question why u should play Lyca against a warrior, cause of item problem, on german server we do not have much equ as warrior equ, unplayable without a horse things like this ruin lyca´s cause nobody going to play him if his dmg goes even or less to warrior.

jeroenado · Sep 8th 2017, 2:46pm

I've said this in another post. Even with the equipment problem, on the new servers warriors and suras are still more popular than lycans.

meh · Sep 8th 2017, 3:27pm

Oups.. mistake. I was reffering to the Weaponary Sura as a "Tank" - sorry my Bad.

Let's be real. Many Players started with the Lycan because they realized what enormous Amount of Damage it deals.

Over Years the Lycan had Advantage over Advantage. Missing Clawdefense on Boses etc. you name it.

Now it got a Change. In my Eyes it’s a needed Change, and People just have to learn to play with it optimize your Equipment along the Change, and you will still be able to Solo Bosses, not as easy as you used to be, but that shouldn’t be the case in the first Place.

But that's basically what Weaponary Suras had to do too, I had to focus on Int/Str in my Equipment, getting the correct Armor etc. but in the End I was proud of what i achieved. It shouldn't be like "I'll get my main Damage Skill up to perfect and I can Solo Bosses" you should be rewarded for Investments you make. And if I was able to Solo Razador/Nemere with Matt Alchemy, the Lycan can do it too.

jeroenado · Sep 8th 2017, 3:50pm

meh wrote:

Let's be real. Many Players started with the Lycan because they realized what enormous Amount of Damage it deals.

Over Years the Lycan had Advantage over Advantage. Missing Clawdefense on Boses etc. you name it.

Now it got a Change. In my Eyes it’s a needed Change, and People just have to learn to play with it, you will still be able to Solo Bosses, not as easy as you used to be, but that shouldn’t be the case in the first Place.

Hi again

I respect your opinion, yet I cannot agree with you and yes most have a completely different opinion on this. I do agree that bosses shouldn't be able to be done solo so easy. BUT do you really think that's the fault of the character? You have so many items/pets/alchemy/.. to buff your damage now. I just fail to see how this is the character's fault.

It's already been a long time that a character with good items but bad skills can win duels from a character with bad items and good skills. If you guys think this (nerfing characters) is the way to fix your "their is too much damage in the game and bosses are too easily done solo" problem, then I think I should make a big step back, and also means that you just don't give a shit about your (almost) dead servers where items to buff your damage are hard to get.

meh · Sep 8th 2017, 4:00pm

@jeroenado of course this is one of the Reasons if you're talking about "to much Damage".

If you give a Character a High Number of AV from 1 Skill without having to to something for it (for example, having to buy INT Equipment) that's not a good Design for a Skill.

That's because now everybody has a High Attack Value without even having to invest into his Character. That's why changing Crimson to a flat Amount is the most stupid Thing you could do.
Investment should give you and Advantage, that's what the process of "working on my Equipment" is all about in an MMO.

jeroenado · Sep 8th 2017, 4:04pm

So you'd rather nerf a free to play aspect than a pay to play aspect (just an example: removing khans/porkys/.. from the game or just make it like you can't use whelps in boss runs)? it's only fking to players like me who are on an almost dead server.

LordBlack · Sep 8th 2017, 4:05pm

Dear tester(meh) i believe that you have a serious personal problem with likan class.. Stop to compare lykan to sura. NO SENSE! SURA HAVE 2 DEFENSIVE SKILL AND HIM SKILL OF DAMAGE can absorb hp. If your skill duration is 55 second and you must change item to have a discreet attack damage, are you playing yet with sura?. I don't think that you don't understand but i believe that you don't want to understand and your way to do that will be tha cause of lose a lot of money for the Gameforge. I hope that a your superior read that the metin2 players writhe because you can be the best GM in your country but you are not the same like tester and you believe that we can only cry... I believe that you must listen to us and ours opinion.

meh · Sep 8th 2017, 4:21pm

We’re talking about Character/Skill Design. Stop making it about the Itemshop again.
It doesn’t matter if we were to remove Itemshop Stuff as long as the Character Design itself is broken/in bad Shape.

@LordBlack I don’t know what your Problem is, but it seems like it’s some bigger Issue that has nothing to do with me. This is a Forum, People do speak about their Opinions here, if you got a Problem with that – well then this is the wrong space for you to spend your free Time on.

Regarding the Comment why I keep comparing Lycan to a Sura, that’s because Sura is one of the 3 most used Classes for PvE Content. Furthermore It is the Class which I have been playing for PvE, so it’s the Class I can tell the most about.

In addition to that, I'd like you to not make this about my qualification. If my "Superior" would not be okay with what I am doing, I would stop - so you can be assured that what I am doing here is right

LordBlack · Sep 8th 2017, 4:27pm

All class have a different way of play and they could be similar but not the same. Please try to understand what we say and i ask you only to try you like the players who use lykan the difficulty that the player have during do a boss or all the pvm activities. I hope that you understand me. GOOD WORK

jeroenado · Sep 8th 2017, 4:34pm

meh wrote:

We’re talking about Character/Skill Design. Stop making it about the Itemshop again.
It doesn’t matter if we were to remove Itemshop Stuff as long as the Character Design itself is broken/in bad Shape.

This character is in NOT broken or in a bad shape, the only thing that is in a bad shape is how it looks in game and the auto attack animation xD. It's not because something is more than another that it's broken.

Mental's ssw deals more than any other skills? Is it broken? No.

I wasn't suggesting to remove your "precious item shop stuff", I was giving an example.

jeroenado wrote:

just an example

You can only add items and again and again .. Eventually the players will get it and you know that, and now when the players (mostly on your precious german servers and your other precious populated servers) have it all, the characters are now to be blamed.

I will never EVER play another game from gameforge again, if these decisions are final! As long as gameforge don't start to care about EVERY player, I will stay negative against it and YOU (meh) are still protecting gameforge.

This character is not broken, the only thing that is broken about this character is the people's attitude towards this character.

If these changes go live, at least you know you'll have at least 1 angry player

.

meh · Sep 8th 2017, 4:50pm

What should be or not be in the Itemshop is nothing I have to decide, so i don't even bother speaking about it. Just because I'm not the one making such Decisions.

I’m one of the Guys testing Stuff that has to be tested. It's not even my Job to have a Discussion here with you. I’m doing that in my free time, because i myself hated the Way the Forum was being handled when I was still playing. So I'm not the one "in charge" for the Update, I'm just stating my Opinion.

If you start getting personal (like a few did in another Thread) I’ve no obligation to stay here and talk to you on that kind of Level. I’m willing to listen to your Opinion, have a Discussion about it and forward it, but only as long as it stays in the normal boundaries of a Conversation without insulting each other. You wouldn’t want to be insulted for having an Opinion either when you’re only trying to help & communicate.

jeroenado · Sep 8th 2017, 5:00pm

meh wrote:

when I was still playing.

Yet you're not giving any good arguments for a lycan nerf (a lack of claw defs on SOME bosses is not due to the character but to your system)

Too high attack value? you know how much a lycan hit on horse without pets/alch/other crap & not too much int on lv 75 (35 avg weapons and P skills)? maybe 4k with a crit, a warrior with same shit deals 3.5k with a crit!

Such imbalance I've never seen before in my life! :O

you are crying for a lycan change without reason mate (i really wanna go personal now though :D)

after all I think it's funny how people who don't even play the game want a character to be nerfed

Monsaire · Sep 8th 2017, 5:08pm

Dear Meh Assayer, I beg you to inform GF (or relevant people) that the duration of the scarlet soul skill is too short,

After the nerf, the lycan needs to use intelligence equipment and, put it on every 1 minute, is more than a nuisance ..
leaving aside that is wasted time to get off the horse, equip intelligence, activate and raise the horse, is unrealized damage, if it does not face many monsters, it is sure to die while activating the skill, if the server is slow, still worse, not a duel would last 55 seconds and then activate a buff in the middle of a duel is not a good idea, as you can see here ..

although the car is good, if it is going to need maintenance every 2 x 3 it does not work

I hope this is correct

Blesenth · Sep 8th 2017, 6:51pm

Yemon wrote:

What I would like to Change:

Change the duration back to his old value because it will be super annoying like it is now (with 55s duration) and the players will lose a lot of fun playing this char/game.

Fix the 1-Hit Bug from Bosses, because no one likes 1-Hit, not In PvP and also not in PvM. It makes the players realy mad if they die because a Monster do crazy numbers even on 50+ skill resistance.

This is what must be changed. The duration of the scarlet wolf's soul should be about 90 to 120 seconds. The damages have fallen in large part but as I do not have to prove like Yemon a good lycan, it is very little notice the difference maybe 15% but in great damages if there should be difference.
I agree a bit with yemon but I think equally the scarlet damage should be a little bigger in P but smaller than it was before the changes.

I think the wolf should be an intermediate point between the sura weaponary and the body warrior and should remain competent in the pve with them. This is what I think about this.

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