[Archer] Long skill animation

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    • What are you complaining about? Spark is a Bow Ninja exclusive Skill so logically it should only be useable in Combination with a Bow. Same goes for the Dagger Ninja Skills. Stealth or Feather Walk can be used without a Weapon or with a Bow/Dagger because they’re in theory “non Damage Skills” but rather “Buffs”. I don’t see what is “not okay” about the fact that you can’t use a Bow Skill without a Bow – sorry. That’s like asking to make Ambush useable with a Bow.. :whistling:
      if you need help with anything, don't hesitate to ask me.

      Alles was ich im Umfang einer Diskussion schreibe, stellt lediglich meine persönliche Meinung dar.
      Solltet ihr Probleme im Spiel haben oder Hilfe benötigen könnt ihr euch jederzeit an mich wenden!

      The post was edited 1 time, last by meh ().

    • Poison Cloud is a Dagger exclusive skill and can be used with a bow or without any weapon. And it is an attack skill not a buff (and it's dealing alot of damage I might add).

      We were asking for Spark to be casted with daggers or bare hands because of it's main usage in PvM. The MAIN usage of Spark is..? To deal damage? NO. To escape/evade from a group of players or mobs that are blocking you? YES.
      An Archer Ninja NEVER uses his bow in PvM it is obvious that ALL THE TIME in PvM he's using either daggers or sword (there are some speciffic cases in which a bow is used for luring bosses or range attacks but those are particular situations). So he cannot use it's ONLY skill that could help him evade.

      A dagger ninja has Rolling Dagger and Camouflage with which he can evade/escape from mobs that are cornering him....an archer has only one skill made with this purpose and that is useless in PvM due to it's restriction.

      You are talking about "logic" but if we have to be logic I can say that Spark is a skill that has nothing to do with a bow. It is a mini bomb/flash/gas bomb (whatever you wanna call it) and you could theoretically cast it with bare hands. You don't need a bow for throwing a flash bomb aren't you? What is the "logic" in having it limited to bow only?

      In PvP we're using bow and in PvM we're using daggers...it's simple. As Dagger ninja can cast Poison Cloud with bare hands or another weapon, so should be the Archer ninja be able to cast Spark...Now THIS is logic

      The post was edited 8 times, last by Rapier ().

    • meh wrote:

      What are you complaining about? Spark is a Bow Ninja exclusive Skill so logically it should only be useable in Combination with a Bow. Same goes for the Dagger Ninja Skills. Stealth or Feather Walk can be used without a Weapon or with a Bow/Dagger because they’re in theory “non Damage Skills” but rather “Buffs”. I don’t see what is “not okay” about the fact that you can’t use a Bow Skill without a Bow – sorry. That’s like asking to make Ambush useable with a Bow.. :whistling:
      Please show me a skill which isn't class specific. Another example warriors, they are able to use their skills with one handed and with two handed swords. To follow your idea, a mental warrior should be only able to use his skills with a two handed sword, with a one handed sword he can make only auto attacks. Why? Because the twohanded sword is class specific, a onehanded sword three clases can use, so autoattacks should be okay. This list can be continued, what's with suras and their sura sword and the normal sword? It's a sura specific weapon, because of that it's only fair to make skills with these swords? I don't think so! So please think over what you're writing about class specific skills. It's only fair when an archer is able to use 1-2 skills without the duty to wear a bow. Please remind we don't want to have a lot of damage with these skills when they are used with daggers or a onehanded sword. This should only make an archer a bit more useful for pve.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Bruce ().

    • Frankly the people who run us are really stupid to ask this kind of question, they take into account their point of view and if our does not match they voluntarily dodge the expected answers and leave us in the crazy. I started to have some mare that we say test to test test ... we tested, we are all very high level we all made pvp pvm wars boss, we have years of experience of game you know better than you what is good and what it is not, defense arrow for a bomb you find it logical? Do not talk about credibility when you do things yourself on your own initiative that go totally against it.


      I will recite all the pseudos, I do not content with one answer given the ridiculous it brings:
      censored - meh

      The post was edited 2 times, last by meh ().

    • This is a fantasy game, if I will tell you that the bomb is made out of a point of an arrow which had explosives then you would think that it can have arrow resistance?

      From what I know the reasoning why is that the damage from Archers skills are calculated in a very specific way which would break if you would use other types of weapons.

    • Fantasy? ok I want mist in defense daggers because after all it starts to daggers, I want to resist sword for the MN because after all he throw their spells well with a sword, I want defense gong and shaman for shamans since after all he uses them too for their spells?

      You see the debility of your arguments which are all more pitiful and weak than the others? I will not stop until I have had a real answer or results, tell me to harass you.

      censored - meh

      The post was edited 2 times, last by meh ().

    • unforgiven wrote:

      This is a fantasy game, if I will tell you that the bomb is made out of a point of an arrow which had explosives then you would think that it can have arrow resistance?

      From what I know the reasoning why is that the damage from Archers skills are calculated in a very specific way which would break if you would use other types of weapons.
      It depends what the player or you imagine "how the skill works" :D I could also say my archer is throwing a bomb without using any arrow. But okay this should not be the topic of this thread.

      Really sad to hear that damage calculation is the real issue for removing the skill for using by dagger or without weapon.

      @unforgiven can you request if it's possible to add a mechanism / changing existing skill to give an archer an option to escape from monsters in pve? This will really help a lot. An archer should not be a class which has no choice to fight and die or to escape by using a skill like other classes can do.

    • @unforgiven, I'm very well aware this is a fantasy game...but when from one side I'm presented with arguments like "logic" and I'm told that other classes are not able to use skills with other weapons WHEN THEY DO...I respond with the same arguments right? Otherwise I'll be told that I'm talking about something totally different and this is not the case.

      I get it, Webzen or whoever decides, doesn't want this and instead of saying this we're given arguments that do not stand. Up to this point, nobody came with a "logic" argument. I was told that dagger ninja cannot use skills with bows...and they can (not only buffs but attack skill as well). I explained why we are requesting this and also I've explained it is for PvM not PvP. I was just presenting some facts and tried to show something it is not inline with other changes or classes and something that won't affect anybody except us (Archers). So I have to come to the conclusion from the begning of this paragraph, "somebody" doesn't want it implemented for certain reasons. I don't care why...could be development process, resources involved that can be used somewhere else...whatever. At least say so, instead of coming up with arguments that do not stand.

      What most people are angry for is that on one side you're asking for feedback and when you're getting it, if it something that you consider "out of scope" or not something you like or even think to be implemented, you don;t care or come up with poor reasons. That do not makes us give better feedback, will eventually make us not taking part in any betas and not give any feedback at all whatever "prizes" you say we'll win if doing so. We're playing this game...WE not you nor Webzen. And we participate in these betas for us not for winning a "prize" cause we thought here is the only place where our voices can be heard more or less. What we see sometimes is that our opinion is not considered so soon you'll get in the beta only childs who'll ask for lvl up or maxed alchemy and perfect enchated items to do what they're not able to do on live server. I'm wondering what feedback you have received till now from them.

      My pledge is over, carry on.

    • Hi Rapier,

      I understand your point with feedback but you also need to understand that things cannot be changed from one second to the other and I will not commit saying that case A will happen when WebZen or even GF can change their mind in between. It is not an easy case for any of us but once again, your feedback is heard, your ideas are heard. These are transmitted and discussed but if they will and when they will be implemented is something that is hard to be transparent about.

      Cheers,
      unforgiven

    • Thank you for your answer @unforgiven, I can understand that. The only thing in such cases is that, reported issues tend to be "lost in time" after a while and nobody is remembering them. It would be good if there will be an official thread somewhere, replicated to each community, where the aknowledged bugs are listed so that anyone could see that a particular bug or issue is addressed and will be solved sometime and doesn't need to be reported again and again. Yes, I am aware that this means some work from staff teams but it will also contribute alot to the "transparency" and communication between players and the developpers.

    • Rapier wrote:

      I get it, Webzen or whoever decides, doesn't want this and instead of saying this we're given arguments that do not stand. Up to this point, nobody came with a "logic" argument. I was told that dagger ninja cannot use skills with bows...and they can (not only buffs but attack skill as well)

      Please keep in mind that the purpose of my answer was just to start a discussion with you guys about this topic until somebody like @unforgiven will respond.
      It was in no form a representative “argument” for anything. :)
      Furthermore is Poison Cloud the only Skill that can be used with Bow (I didn’t think of it at this moment). You make it sound like you can cast every single Dagger Ninja skill with a bow.. which you obviously cannot.
      if you need help with anything, don't hesitate to ask me.

      Alles was ich im Umfang einer Diskussion schreibe, stellt lediglich meine persönliche Meinung dar.
      Solltet ihr Probleme im Spiel haben oder Hilfe benötigen könnt ihr euch jederzeit an mich wenden!

    • Well, now I'm angry, folks. This just feels like call centers - receptionists are there, ready to listen to all of your complaints but are unable to propose any real solution.

      meh wrote:

      Sorry guys.. but as soon as you're going PvE with the Archer. You are wearing Daggers anyway. And with Daggers you are able to use Horse Skills. So i don't see the "escape" Point in this Topic.

      As i explained before. I would not mind if you were able to use Spark with Daggers, however Dagger Ninja can't use their Skill with Bow's either. Furthermore Webzen does not want it to be that way.. so?
      What about dungeons which do not allow players to use mounts at all?
      What about the NEW Zodiacs dungeons which implemented the dismount mechanics?

      It seems to me that... something which starts as a bad idea, may only generate worse results.

      Is an archer doomed to die as soon as he/she is cornered by the enemies? Where's the SO fabled balancing you've been talking about, since the beginning of this beta, regarding archers' PvE?

      Moreover, no offence intended, the second part of your answer displays WHAT a great knowledge an official tester may be capable of displaying. Because, yeah, dagger ninjas MAY actually use both Poison Cloud (an evidently non-dagger skill) and Stealth (same story), even when barehanded, regardless of the type of weapon they're "wearing".

      Did you forget about it? Or is just that, when it comes to fixing Archers badly programmed data, everyone needs to come up with excuses?

      It's not that I want to be rude. It' s just that we're facing obstacles coming from someone who apparently doesn't even really know many basic features of this game. No wonder things have been messed up for so long - hey, this is a feedback as well, don't take me wrong.

      Not to mention this:

      meh wrote:

      . Stealth or Feather Walk can be used without a Weapon or with a Bow/Dagger because they’re in theory “non Damage Skills” but rather “Buffs”.
      Actually they (you?) changed Feather Walk from a selfbuff skill (which obviously still retains the name of a buff skill :D ) turning it into a ridicolous attack skill with no radius. And, guess what? They made it only bow-executable. What a bliss!

      unforgiven wrote:

      This is a fantasy game, if I will tell you that the bomb is made out of a point of an arrow which had explosives then you would think that it can have arrow resistance?

      From what I know the reasoning why is that the damage from Archers skills are calculated in a very specific way which would break if you would use other types of weapons.

      ...Well, yeah. And in fantasy games, a self-buff ability called "Godspeed" implies being able to drop bombs with no useful radius (horribly drawn with Word cliparts, by the way) which are meant to be flung with a GIANT BOW. Please, even if I'm quite sure you do not intend to, you're insulting our intelligence as persons, AND players and ALSO as the feedback-providers you requested.

      The fantasy game story is wonderful, just like every other patch-on-a-hole Gameforge pulls out, when they don't know how to deal with a bug or when an immediate fix is needed.

      It's just that Metin2 is programmed so badly that if you just THINK of changing something, everything falls. I guess @Aworan knew something about this issue, as you can read here.

      But I really fail to see why an OBVIOUSLY non-arrow skill has been changed to arrow-type. The path for balancing was in the basic concept of Spark, it was just perfect. The new ideas you came up with are just botches and believe us, it' showing, it's definitely showing!

      Rapier wrote:

      What most people are angry for is that on one side you're asking for feedback and when you're getting it, if it something that you consider "out of scope" or not something you like or even think to be implemented, you don;t care or come up with poor reasons. That do not makes us give better feedback, will eventually make us not taking part in any betas and not give any feedback at all whatever "prizes" you say we'll win if doing so. We're playing this game...WE not you nor Webzen.
      Kudos to you, @Rapier. My biggest satisfaction since my registration on this board derived from witnessing that many other archer-users from all over the world detected the same problems related to these aspect of Metin2 gameplay.

      On the other hand, I'd expect a feedback to be REALLY accepted, which means it will bring to a constructive discussion and a fix.

      But it seems to me that they are always coming up with stories and cheap solutions.