New armours and weapons

Rapier · Jul 19th 2017, 3:55pm

Aze wrote:

yea for me it looks like they dont have it all figured out.. they should really consider not fking things up, cuz thats pretty easy.. i know making a alrighty sword for both bm and weapon is great.. but rly i have both a warrior and a BM so its not annoying me insanely.. but still i think rune sword should be upgradeable its the 105 wep that have been made the most.. and it kinda feels like a waste of money if its gonna be stucked.. also because solar cant get 2x hh.. so as warrior u are stuck with a slightly weaker weapon and only 1..

And more than that, 2 handed weapon it's almost of no use in duels/1-1 combat

unforgiven · Jul 19th 2017, 4:14pm

WasuLove wrote:

Should not change the weapons, then surely many body warriors and weaponery sura will stop playing The Game.

Ninja and shaman weapons are much too strong, especially the ninja weapons

Warriors and Weapon Sura's Damage at somewhat higher than most of the other classes. They don't really need even more damage, I would say. For some reason those two classes are basically the most played in M2.Europe.

This doesn't mean that they will never have newer weapons, just not this time.

OmulCuier · Jul 19th 2017, 4:15pm

unforgiven wrote:

WasuLove wrote:

Should not change the weapons, then surely many body warriors and weaponery sura will stop playing The Game.

Ninja and shaman weapons are much too strong, especially the ninja weapons

Warriors and Weapon Sura's Damage at somewhat higher than most of the other classes. They don't really need even more damage, I would say. For some reason those two classes are basically the most played in M2.Europe.
This doesn't mean that they will never have newer weapons, just not this time.

They are the most played classes because they're the most powerful in PvM along with the Lycan.

unforgiven · Jul 19th 2017, 4:19pm

And if players wouldn't stack resistances versus Sword/Magic/Two-handed swords, what would happen?

TianyLu · Jul 19th 2017, 4:24pm

unforgiven wrote:

Warriors and Weapon Sura's Damage at somewhat higher than most of the other classes.

You're wrong.
They're not the strongest.

Basically every class deals more Skill DMG then they do. Regarding Hit DMG, thats what their main Part of the DMG comes from, so its just normal that they're dealing more Hit DMG then anyone else.

If you're arguing "they don't really need even more damage" that goes for every other Race as well.

unforgiven · Jul 19th 2017, 5:08pm

No one said skill or normal hits, I said "damage". The full output. Let us keep this at the same level.

Regarding needing more damage, in DPS, most of the other classes are still lower than Warrior and Weaponry Sura. There is still a need to be able to balance them. PvP is a more complex matter since almost anything we would do in PvE would touch PvP. Let's wait for the next build and see how it goes.

NekoEmperador · Jul 19th 2017, 5:25pm

Rapier wrote:

Oh...I just noticed in the above weapons list the stats for the new daggers. Is it true they have 25 HH bonus? Why is that? I hope it's a mistake as ALL other weapons do have only 20%.

Also why the attack speed differs from one weapon to another? 105 weapons all have the attack speed of 15...why the new weapons don't all have 30 for ex.? Why some 25, some 30 ...and there's even one with 26. What's the logic? One good improvement would be for all to have 30.

The ninjas have no enchanted blade, aura of sword or scarlet soul, and the other weapons have a higher attack value.

Rapier · Jul 19th 2017, 5:47pm

That's crap. They do have 2 x swings, one with each hand instead of one swing per hit for the other chars. So if you inflict (for ex) 100 damage per swing, when you hit space once you will in fact inflict 2 x 100 = 200 damage.

Also all the epic weapons starting with the lvl 90 ones that do have base HH bonus on them, have the same equal base HH bonus regardless of the class. And even if dagger ninjas don't have enchanted blade, aura or soul buffs...neither do the archers or shamans or mentals. That's not a reason for having more HH than others.

Can anyone that actually saw the new daggers tell the value of HH for the daggers at +9? I still hope there's a mistake and they have 20% as all the other weapons. If not, then maybe someone from the team can explain the reasons because what is written above is nonsense.

BlueRay · Jul 19th 2017, 6:02pm

unforgiven wrote:

No one said skill or normal hits, I said "damage". The full output. Let us keep this at the same level.

Regarding needing more damage, in DPS, most of the other classes are still lower than Warrior and Weaponry Sura. There is still a need to be able to balance them. PvP is a more complex matter since almost anything we would do in PvE would touch PvP. Let's wait for the next build and see how it goes.

Unfs, don't forget that currently it is very easy to go above 50% physical attack block. I have exactly 50% chance to miss a normal hit, and I don't even have Bulwark (12-14%) and an excellent onix (12%) which is the cheapest alchemy to make. Add both of those to the 50% chance of an attack missing and you get a 26-24% chance to land an attack. One in four auto attacks will deal damage, how is this even fair for body warriors and weapon suras?

This wouldn't be so bad if warriors and suras wouldn't have to rely so much on auto attacks since their skill damage is lower than most other classes...

TianyLu · Jul 19th 2017, 7:46pm

unforgiven wrote:

No one said skill or normal hits, I said "damage". The full output. Let us keep this at the same level.

Regarding needing more damage, in DPS, most of the other classes are still lower than Warrior and Weaponry Sura. There is still a need to be able to balance them. PvP is a more complex matter since almost anything we would do in PvE would touch PvP. Let's wait for the next build and see how it goes.

what the hell?

No dude.. you're not right. I agree on PvP Balance being a complex matter, yes. But i totally disagree with you on the "Warrior and Weaponary Sura dealing the most DMG"
BM Suras are strong af, same goes for every of the both Shaman Classes, the Archer Ninja and Close Combat Ninja aswell.. so please - get your Facts straight first.

GeokaralGR · Jul 19th 2017, 9:36pm

unforgiven wrote:

No one said skill or normal hits, I said "damage". The full output. Let us keep this at the same level.

Regarding needing more damage, in DPS, most of the other classes are still lower than Warrior and Weaponry Sura. There is still a need to be able to balance them. PvP is a more complex matter since almost anything we would do in PvE would touch PvP. Let's wait for the next build and see how it goes.

I suppose that this is the first time you are logging in metin.If not then you are complete unware of what is happening nowdays in metin.Every race has its purpose.You can't make a shaman or an archer make solo runs in dungeons this is not the reason they created for.Body warriors/sura wep/and now lycan are built for dps.You can't make a support player like shaman be a tank like warrior or sura wep.In my opinion this balancing update is gonna be the tombstone of metin.New armor that is nearly garbage(no magic res for the moment so useless).New weapons that gives much more great power than already exists.The only way now to stand for 5-6 sec in battles is to use i.s and a lot of blessings.Piercing hits destroyed whats left of this game.So i am asking this question for the team and the players:where is the good thing in this update?where is a positive angle of all these?We were expecting a balancing update and the company gives us the most unbalanced version of metin in history of this game.GJ GameForge!

WasuLove · Jul 19th 2017, 10:22pm

unforgiven wrote:

WasuLove wrote:

Should not change the weapons, then surely many body warriors and weaponery sura will stop playing The Game.

Ninja and shaman weapons are much too strong, especially the ninja weapons

Warriors and Weapon Sura's Damage at somewhat higher than most of the other classes. They don't really need even more damage, I would say. For some reason those two classes are basically the most played in M2.Europe.
This doesn't mean that they will never have newer weapons, just not this time.

What does this have to do with it?
Each race gets the possibility to develop better with their present weapons. Thus, the damage of other breeds continues to increase in both the PVP and the PVM.

I as Waffensura find it just as a mess here. All PVP overpowered races get even more Dmg and not the Waffensura. In addition, the runenschwert will be nothing more worth and the Ksoten for the Sura to make everything from 65 of anew are enormous.

3vilmind · Jul 20th 2017, 12:12am

unforgiven wrote:

No one said skill or normal hits, I said "damage". The full output. Let us keep this at the same level.

Regarding needing more damage, in DPS, most of the other classes are still lower than Warrior and Weaponry Sura. There is still a need to be able to balance them. PvP is a more complex matter since almost anything we would do in PvE would touch PvP. Let's wait for the next build and see how it goes.

When balancing that DPS please keep in mind that each character type should STILL remain different and also that what you change in PvP will probably affect PvE. The fun of the game is exactly those differences that require skill and tactics to be able to defeat your opponents even if sometimes you are outnumbered.

Aze · Jul 20th 2017, 1:26pm

... I get a bit angry when i read what @unforgiven is writing.. Yea of course weaponary sura and body warrior is the most played.. they are used for the PvM part of the game.. but i think alot of players would like to see them in more pvp. But this "update" is destroying that dream.. You take out the rune sword, the Triton, the Battle... Its the most used sword in the game, people have spend years building the perfect weapon... And now they have to do it all over again? of course u could say its not needed for warrior because of the 2hand but for body warrior a 2 handed weapon isnt the best choice.. i think u guys really should consider giving all classes the same opportunities and let them make the new weapon.. still i dont see the reason with the new armour? removing magical res? nobody will ever make that armour, maybe for the pvm because of the hp restore.. I think the guys behind this update, should sit down and talk about this alot more. as it looks like now, it would be a chaos to release this update to official servers.

-Aze DK

TianyLu · Jul 20th 2017, 2:04pm

The Thing is, if you're arguing that Weaponary Sura and Body Warrior deal too much Damage - okay.

Let's view it from another Direction. Shaman, BM Sura, Mental Warrior, Lycan, Ninja - every of those Classes got a VERY High DPS Count.

Neither Shaman, Ninja, Mental Warrior have big Problems if they get hit by Dispel. As soon as a Body Warrior or Weaponary Sura gets hit with Dispel you can basically just suicide. Because you're missing so much of your DMG.
Furthermore are the other Classes able to deal the Same Amount of Damage as the two we're talking about, the Difference is that they're dealing their Damage by using Skills and not normal Attacks, but the Damage Amount is basically the same.

So i definitely cannot understand the Argument "Weaponary Sura and Body Warrior deal the most DPS" - it's just not true.
They're the most played Race - yes. But that's mainly because of their pure Strength in Pvm.

Rapier · Jul 20th 2017, 3:13pm

In my understanding DPS = Damage Per Second...that is now much damage inflicts a character (or class) per second. So if taken skills into calculation, for ex an Archer with the spark dealing 10,000 damage every 60 sec (the skill cooldown), means 166.66 DPS. with a hit per sec at 2,000 damage means 2,000 DPS and so on. If you really want, you can calculate the TOTAL DPS for a class taking into consideration the base damage & cooldown for each skill and adding the damage for hits as well. That will be roughly the DPS of that class. Then you can compare them and see which is lower or which is better. I'll try to do it below for an Archer but again...this is BASE damage for skill and it very much affected by gear , weapons, pets, bonuses and so on. A real calculation is very hard to make and also the base is only theoretical because you cannot cast ALL skills at once so you'll never in fact inflict that damage at once.

Fire Arrow: 2227 dmg max, 25 sec cooldown - 89.08 DPS
Repetitive Shot: 2382 dmg max, 15 sec cooldown - 158.80 DPS
Poison Arrow: 2125 max dmg, 25 sec cooldown - 85 DPS
Arrow Shower: 1335 max dmg, 18 sec cooldown - 74.16 DPS
Spark: 2237 max dmg, 60 sec cooldown - 37.28 DPS
normal hit: 2000 dmg, 1 sec - 2000 DPS

TOTAL: 2444.32 DPS

Now calculate the same for sura and compare

TianyLu · Jul 20th 2017, 4:16pm

Weaponary Sura:

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Black Magic Sura:

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Body Warrior:

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Mental Warrior:

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Lycan:

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TianyLu · Jul 20th 2017, 4:17pm

Dragon Force Shaman:

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Healing Force Shaman:

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Blade Fight Ninja:

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TianyLu · Jul 20th 2017, 4:23pm

If we take those Tests into consideration, we're able to see that Weaponary Sura & Body Warrior are NOT the 2 Races with the most DPS.
They're very good - yes. They deal a Lot of Hit Damage - yes. But compared to Classes like Shaman or Ninja they have the Downside of almost being completely useless when hit by Dispel.

In my Opinion there's no Reason to NOT get a Rune Sword Upgrade for the Weaponary Sura or Body Warrior to use in PvP.

The other Races are getting Upgrades as well, their DPS will rise like Hell.. so why don't give it to the other 2 as well?

Rapier · Jul 20th 2017, 8:55pm

The only thing is that in "real world", those values are not true. Don't know for other classes but base damage of a skill increases drastically with a weapon (for ex Fire Arrow has something like 8500 just by equipp the 105 bow) and it's increased more by other bonuses like DEX or HH same as some other got increase from STR or INT. I don't know how to make a realistic calculation of that, maybe only somebody from Webzen or someone who knows the game internals. And we can't tell for sure if, based on the total DPS per class, the order will remain the same.

Based on above calculations Shamans have one of the highest DPS (due do their low cooldown) but in a fight they deal less damage (even if the opp doesn't have much MR) compared to other classes (say a Lycan for ex)

Tho, for the sake of ballancing and in line with the slogan that say "what is valuable will remain valuable" it's unfair to cut the posibillity to evolve the Rune Sword...not only for the War class but also for lots of Sura that made and use a Rune Sword instead of a Dragon Tooth Blade. And to argue in favor of that, please remember that Weapon Suras are hit based chars as well as Body Warrior. The Enchanted Blade increases their hit damage similar with Aura so it is a logical thing for a Weapon Sura to choose the weapon with the most attack value. Given the fact that you decided NOT to evolve both speciffic sura swords into 105 swords, Weapon Suras had only to choose between Rune Sword and Dragon Tooth Blade...so the choice was obvious, just compare the attack of both weapons. Now, you bring new weapons to the table and say...look you have to evolve only speciffic class weapon, Rune Sword won't be evolved sorry. First you "force" this class to use a speciffic weapon by limiting their choices and then you don't allow that weapon to be upgraded. That's really not fair at all.

Please don't get me wrong...I would be advantaged if you won't allow Rune Sword to be evolved...but it's not fair...and for sure this is not ballancing to leave a whole character class without options. Please check how many Weapons Suras use Rune Sword and how many Dragon Tooth Blade...i don't think you'll find many with the latter in all Metin2 communities

New armours and weapons

Aze wrote:

WasuLove wrote:

unforgiven wrote:

WasuLove wrote:

unforgiven wrote:

Rapier wrote:

unforgiven wrote:

unforgiven wrote:

unforgiven wrote:

unforgiven wrote:

WasuLove wrote:

unforgiven wrote:

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