Pinned Resistance - Feedback needed!

prolycan999 · Oct 8th 2018, 2:09pm

RabbitRun wrote:

Dear @Anayra,
First of, I'd like to say something.

We all have our bad days and that's only natural. But it was not needed to spit salt on our comments. By that I mean the way you responded to us was way beyond friendly. Yes you may be QA, you may have set up 'rules' to this thread and yes ofcourse everyone has to stick to it, but I almost was not going to give support anymore looking by this kind of behavior. But I decided to go on.

We're going through a rough time here with these updates going on and we want it to be changed asap. So yea you could also just delete the nonsense without replying instead.

Can we still walk through one door? I hope so... Anyways here are my testings, I hope you appreciate it.

Class: Weaponry Sura level 113
All bio's done (92&94 Attack Value)
No pets/systems were activated unless written
All testings were done with Wind Talisman ON (I did not encounter anything different while switching/unequip Talismans)
My basic Alch consists of:

Legendary Diamond Matt +4 (Skill dmg/Skill dmg Res)
Legendary Onyx Matt +4 (Block/Arrow evade)
Legendary Granate Clear +4 (SP/SPAbsorb/SP Recover)
Legendary Saphire Matt +4 (Warrior/Lycan/Sura Def)
Legendary Jadeit Clear +4 (HP Absorb/HP/HP%)
Legendary Ruby Matt +4 (Average dmg/Attack Value/Average dmg Res)
The first row of damages were done on live servers, the second row on beta server.

Wind Resistance: 20% 27% 55% 70% 77% 89%
Ochao Warrior 900-9501200-1400
650-750950-1100
400-450950-1100
50-90800-900
0700-800
N.A.450-500

Ochao General 1200-13001400-1500
800-1000900-1050
450-5001200-1300
200-2501100-1200
50-1001000-1100
N.A.600-700

En-Tai Warrior 900-11001200-1400
750-9001000-1200
200-250950-1200
0900-1000
0750-900
N.A.400-600

En-Tai Druid 700-800850-950
(+15% MA*)
500-600700-800
(+15% MA*)
320-350600-700
(+25% MA*)
N.A.600-650
(+25% MA*)
~25~450
(No alch/70% wind/45% MA*)
N.A.200-250
(+45% MA*)

En-Tai Destroyer** ~4200~5400
~3600~4600
~1300~4600
~450~4100
~50~3900
N.A.~2800

* MA = Magic Resistance
** It might sound stupid but sometimes I thought like En-Tai Destroyer is using skills so skill resistance would work aswell. But it doesn't so therefore no furter tests done with Skill Res
BROWN = These tests were done with basic alch ON (remember: this Alch has Set Bonus and they were already calculated)

The most right table shows tests which were done with the newest Mythic Alchemy. That Alch consists 6x Mythic Excellent +6 stones and all of the bonusses were perfectly made. I don't think I need to tell you which bonusses they have.

But yea, you can easily see the difference between the live and beta servers.

It's almost sad that I had to use Blessings of Life on beta server in order to get good testings, damn.

This is just part one of my testings. I will make more tests on different types of mobs at your request. If you can tell me which mobs you'd like to get tests from me, just write it

I had so many troubles while writing it on forums, so I had to code the entire table and therefore it took longer than expected.

Greetings,
RabbitRun

Mayby I'm blind but you didn't wrote if that was tested ith fear and enchanted armour and it does matter because only sura weapon has them ;p

RabbitRun · Oct 8th 2018, 2:32pm

prolycan999 wrote:

Mayby I'm blind but you didn't wrote if that was tested ith fear and enchanted armour and it does matter because only sura weapon has them ;p

I said that no pets/systems were activated unless written. But for the record, no I haven't activated any skills so therefore these damages are equally to any class. And yea the skill 'Fear' is a pretty nice def. And honestly... if I had skills on and they did that damage...woah

However, thanks for your attention though

BlueShade · Oct 8th 2018, 4:24pm

You should have several different feedbacks from the various classes, @Anayra. Please let us know if Webzen is going to answer to these feedbacks.

It has been a while since we received official informations. What kind of other test do you need to be performed?

Anayra · Oct 8th 2018, 4:30pm

I love your table

@RabbitRun
That was me in a good day....so you can image in a bad day

If I asked help here from players is because I, and we, give value to your feedback and opinion.
If we can make changes? We try and many times we are able to do it and some times we can't. Believe, I feel more your pain than you think

One more question for you about the gear you used:
- Just wind resistance?
- Any magic?
- Any block?
- Your defense please?

@BlueShade
Razador or Nemere would be nice to have some results too.

RabbitRun · Oct 8th 2018, 4:50pm

Anayra wrote:

One more question for you about the gear you used:

- Just wind resistance?
- Any magic?
- Any block?

?? That's not one, it's three questions! Ok... sarcasm

Yes I tested Wind res because that's the only elemental resistance that works there. I am currently testing other defences now on different maps.

Magic Resistance was tested (that's the MA you see there) on En-Tai Druid. Druid and Healers are the only mobs there where Magic res works.

You mean 'Chance to Block Melee'? Otherwise I don't get it

You'll soon see a new table

Kelius · Oct 8th 2018, 6:01pm

RabbitRun wrote:

Anayra wrote:

One more question for you about the gear you used:

- Just wind resistance?
- Any magic?
- Any block?

?? That's not one, it's three questions! Ok... sarcasm
Yes I tested Wind res because that's the only elemental resistance that works there. I am currently testing other defences now on different maps.

Magic Resistance was tested (that's the MA you see there) on En-Tai Druid. Druid and Healers are the only mobs there where Magic res works.

You mean 'Chance to Block Melee'? Otherwise I don't get it

You'll soon see a new table

Healers damage are reduced by Arrow resistance, not magic.

Why asking about block in "raw" tests like this? The damage withstood is the same!

BlueShade · Oct 8th 2018, 6:38pm

Kelius wrote:

Why asking about block in "raw" tests like this? The damage withstood is the same!

Yeah, block is not supposed to act on the damage "quantity", but just on the chance of completely missing the hit.

Besides, block will just offer a chance to avoid the damage from physical mobs, such as EnTai Warriors, but won't be useful to defend from En-Tai Druids and Magicians.

At least, that's how it's supposed to work.

-

Anyway I'll try to test Nemere's damage on the beta.

I generally prefer to use all of the Skill Resistance I have while facing that monster, since it's pretty difficult to withstand its skills by only relying on ice resistance. So my test will probably just compare the difference of damage dealt by nemere on a fully equipped character, rather than testing the actual usefulness of ice resistance only.

BlueShade · Oct 8th 2018, 8:18pm

I Know how you feel @DaParaRir, but things won't move on if we do not provide them with these feedbacks. One week has passed and we didn't get any news, they're probably waiting for some more tests in order to let Webzen know what's wrong.

Don't forget that it'd be much easier for Webzen to just go ahead and implement 18.4

loltyler1.com · Oct 8th 2018, 8:59pm

"feedback"

RabbitRun · Oct 8th 2018, 9:03pm

This time I won't put a table... too much coding. So I decided to make a quick vid that will help you. Please enjoy. I will start testing bosses aswell later on.

@All, I already told Anayra few posts back about my earlier feelings and if she says she's fine, so be it. Arguing won't help but I know how you guys feel right now but let's focus on the balancing to what's left of it.

Rocket · Oct 9th 2018, 11:31am

DaParaRir wrote:

RabbitRun wrote:

Anayra wrote:

One more question for you about the gear you used:

- Just wind resistance?
- Any magic?
- Any block?

?? That's not one, it's three questions! Ok... sarcasmYes I tested Wind res because that's the only elemental resistance that works there. I am currently testing other defences now on different maps.

Magic Resistance was tested (that's the MA you see there) on En-Tai Druid. Druid and Healers are the only mobs there where Magic res works.

You mean 'Chance to Block Melee'? Otherwise I don't get it

You'll soon see a new table

@RabbitRun
Welcome to our world ! Some players from our community still praise this type of responses pretty sad to be honest...

Also," If I asked help here from players is because I, and we, give value to your feedback and opinion."

Correction : If i asked for some help from players,is because we give value to your feedback and opinion.

An employe that cant even use decent grammar with so many tools available. Arrogant with her words and also wrong with her phrases.

Also, you are not asking for feedback or opinion here, you are asking for the players to do yours and others job, by testing things. Thats not asking for feedback... You have plenty of feedback in this forum... Plenty of opinions too... This is asking for players, literaly to do your job.

Hello there,

any discussion regarding grammar usage or whatsoever has nothing to do with this topic and will therefor, from now on, be censored as spam.

This topic is critical for many players which is why feedback from you, the players, is important. Me personally, I don't have a single problem with the new resistances but players might disagree with me here. And since we're talking about pvm balancing here, we asked you for your feedback. This is not you doing our job, this is us giving you the chance to be involved in changing things to a degree which is playable for you.

If all you want to do is spread negativity, you're in the wrong place.

Greetings,
Rocket

Anayra · Oct 9th 2018, 1:53pm

@DaParaRir
The same I said in the beginning:
- no feedback, no spam

If you don't want to help, leave the topic for people that are interested in helping us to improve the update.

On Topic:
The lack of answer from our side is because we are still checking the issue and see the best way to solve them, including also all your feedback.
You will be informed as soon as we have official news about 18.4.

Thank you for all the help so far, you guys rock! :love:

GamePriv · Oct 9th 2018, 2:14pm

Hey.
Forgive me for being immune and updating.
Because as an administrator you have access to equipment that we do not have.

As for me, this is a big mistake, everything is poorly prepared and unadapted to different character classes.
The current resistance in the BETA version is that I do not want to play.

What is it supposed to be ?!
- Likan
- Shaman
- Ninja
- Sura

Ninja has the worst ...
quick hits, little defense and they do not even deal with dmg

Shaman
I will not say it here because I'm not playing

Likan
Here I can speak
I tested the temple of ochao very carefully

- 84% wind resistance
- about 30% per block of blows
- 25% magic resistance
- talisman in the wind +9
- a ring of joy
- about 700 defense lines

Without a large defensive character, he has injuries after 1000 - 1500.
I still think that indigo should be changed into a likana.
Instead of avoiding the shot, a block of blows should follow. (WHAT IS THIS ARROW BUTTON? !!!! This is a completely useless bonus)

Warrior
- Mental with a strong body and defense of about 1000 stands still, and the monster has 100-150 damage.

Sura
Black magic - it has a defense and stand still
Weapon Power - has a defense facility and stand still

Sura, in my opinion, is again treated as the best character, because the current change does not give you a chance:
- Body warriors
- Likan
- Shaman
- Ninja
Because with them there is no way to get more defense

In my opinion, the solution with elemental resistance should be done in a different way.
This update should be divided into 2 smaller ones.

18.4a) First, changes should be made, because many people still do not know what alchemy is, the other half is already starting to panic and the game ends.
Determine in the end how it should be.

18.4b)
It would only be possible to test resistances after introducing these changes.
How do we know whether to test on a new alchemi or an old one.

The new alchemy is evil.

A better solution is to increase the defense of monsters and their HP.

SpeckHund · Oct 9th 2018, 3:03pm

Hello there,
I did a small test at the Mystic forest with the most weak monster on this map: Entai Warrior lvl 100:

My charakter was a lvl 100 Lykan who completed all Biologist quests and took 2x HP as reward, so no bonus defense.
MY DSS was active in order to annulate the piercing and critical hits of that Monster. So i recieved the raw damage without any modifications:

I recorded in every example 20 hits and calculated the arithmetic mean of these values:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Test 1: 673 defense 10 wind resistance

Damage received: 1692 1521 1472 1465 1514 1500 1695 1668 1405 1510 1528 1402 1405 1685 1430 1619 1545 1608 1430

-> Ø 1538 Damage

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Test 2 : 674 Defense 63 wind resistance

Damage received: 1124 1135 1082 1100 1222 1180 1222 1250 1253 1037 1184 1313 1205 1096 1180 1236 1156 1222 1121 1156

-> Ø 1164 Damage
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Test 3: 673 defense 10 wind resistance + Lion Mount with 10% Damage resistance:

Damage recived: 1313 1408 1299 1415 1425 1505 1548 1348 1548 1499 1247 1365 1471 1562 1446 1229 1236 1520 1446 1276

-> Ø 1405 Damage
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Discussion: In this test you can see the weakest Monster on this Map which you can find in a high number out there. It deals a huge amount of damagewhich is really hard to reduce. 53 more windresistance (Test 2 compared to Test 1) do only reduce the average damage by 374 damage.Compared to wind resistance other defence bonuses are much more effective: The 10% of the Lion reduce the incoming average damage by 133points. That means in this example the lions damage reduction is about 2 times more effective than wind resistance.In my opinion are 374 damage points reduction quite a poor value for 53 wind resistance ( you shouldnt forget that 53 Wind correspond to 4 items in your kit and you have to renounce other strong items like Soul Crystal necklace or Fire/Quilin shoes to reach this value).For comparison: on the live server the same monster does with the same conditions as test 2 deals about 100-180 Damage.

Anayra · Oct 12th 2018, 1:23pm

I would need more information about the gear you have:
- Just elemental resistance bonus?
- Magic resistance?
- Attack block/reflection?
- Any other bonus with more than 10%?

Basically, we need to know if you are just using one type or a combination of several bonus.

Oberyn · Oct 12th 2018, 2:13pm

Anayra wrote:

I would need more information about the gear you have:
- Just elemental resistance bonus?
- Magic resistance?
- Attack block/reflection?
- Any other bonus with more than 10%?

Basically, we need to know if you are just using one type or a combination of several bonus.

Block/reflection does not reduce the damage you get.

The general problem with elemental resistances is that on beta server 15% elemental resistance reduce the damage you get from monster around 5%.
On Live Server 15% elemental resistance reduce the damage you get from monsters exactly 15%.
And elemental resistances appear to not affect skills on beta, which they do on live server.

These are exactly the same settings which were present on the Live server befor update 17.5.

It does not have anything to do with other bonuses, that's just how the elemental resistances work on beta server at the moment and on live server before update 17.5, 15% elemental resistance give 5% effective bonus.

That's everyhting you need to know

unforgiven · Oct 12th 2018, 3:14pm

We need the full bonuses that players are using to test.

Regarding 5% effective bonuses, this is not really true since the effectiveness depends on how much resistances you have and it is not linear.

SpeckHund · Oct 12th 2018, 3:20pm

Anayra wrote:

I would need more information about the gear you have:
- Just elemental resistance bonus?
- Magic resistance?
- Attack block/reflection?
- Any other bonus with more than 10%?

Basically, we need to know if you are just using one type or a combination of several bonus.

In this Test Attack block/ reflection, Magic resistance do NOT inflict the damage recieved in any aspects.

SpeckHund wrote:

Hello there,
I did a small test at the Mystic forest with the most weak monster on this map: Entai Warrior lvl 100:

My charakter was a lvl 100 Lykan who completed all Biologist quests and took 2x HP as reward, so no bonus defense.
MY DSS was active in order to annulate the piercing and critical hits of that Monster. So i recieved the raw damage without any modifications:

I recorded in every example 20 hits and calculated the arithmetic mean of these values:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Test 1: 673 defense 10 wind resistance

Damage received: 1692 1521 1472 1465 1514 1500 1695 1668 1405 1510 1528 1402 1405 1685 1430 1619 1545 1608 1430

-> Ø 1538 Damage

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Test 2 : 674 Defense 63 wind resistance

Damage received: 1124 1135 1082 1100 1222 1180 1222 1250 1253 1037 1184 1313 1205 1096 1180 1236 1156 1222 1121 1156

-> Ø 1164 Damage
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Test 3: 673 defense 10 wind resistance + Lion Mount with 10% Damage resistance:

Damage recived: 1313 1408 1299 1415 1425 1505 1548 1348 1548 1499 1247 1365 1471 1562 1446 1229 1236 1520 1446 1276

-> Ø 1405 Damage
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[.............]

The Monster was a Melee Attacker with normal damage, which means that magic resist won´t reduce any damage, neither does blocking or reflecting affect the damage numbers you get in any Ways.
The only important attributes were the Defense, the Biologist Mission rewards (in my case only the lvl 70 Quest), and the wind resistance and the Lion.

But if you want to get the information:
Test 1 &3:
I have had 31 melee blocking, 20Magic resistance, 0 reflect, 10% skill damage resistance, 21 lifeleach, 37hp regeneration.
Test 2: melee attack blocking: 21, 12 Magic resistance, 0 reflection, 10% skill damage resistance, 34 lifeleach, 91 hp regeneration

RabbitRun · Oct 12th 2018, 3:43pm

unforgiven wrote:

We need the full bonuses that players are using to test.

Regarding 5% effective bonuses, this is not really true since the effectiveness depends on how much resistances you have and it is not linear.

That doesn't make sense because the problem is the resistance itself. There are just few bonuses that inflict power:
Average Damage Resistance, Dexterity (it gives "Evade" which decreases dmg), biologist rewards, your total Defence and your elemental resistance.

We provide almost all of these bonuses and that should be enough. Remember they changed the effectiveness of the resistances and that's the only thing they need to adjust (but that's my opinion, players who like the way it is now are probably weaponry sura's).

unforgiven · Oct 12th 2018, 3:46pm

@RabbitRun,

It is better to have all bonuses than missing something out.

The effectiveness of resistances work differently from elemental vs weapons/classes/etc. Even between Mob vs. PC, PC vs Mob, PC vs PC has different ways to calculate elemental resistances.

@SpeckHund

Thanks for the info, I did some theoretical calculation and there are some small mismatches. We will try to reproduce it on our end.

Pinned Resistance - Feedback needed!

RabbitRun wrote:

prolycan999 wrote:

Anayra wrote:

RabbitRun wrote:

Anayra wrote:

Kelius wrote:

DaParaRir wrote:

RabbitRun wrote:

Anayra wrote:

Anayra wrote:

Anayra wrote:

SpeckHund wrote:

unforgiven wrote:

Share

Similar Threads

Wind Resistance:	20%	27%	55%	70%	77%	89%
Ochao Warrior	900-9501200-1400	650-750950-1100	400-450950-1100	50-90800-900	0700-800	N.A.450-500
Ochao General	1200-13001400-1500	800-1000900-1050	450-5001200-1300	200-2501100-1200	50-1001000-1100	N.A.600-700
En-Tai Warrior	900-11001200-1400	750-9001000-1200	200-250950-1200	0900-1000	0750-900	N.A.400-600
En-Tai Druid	700-800850-950 (+15% MA*)	500-600700-800 (+15% MA*)	320-350600-700 (+25% MA*)	N.A.600-650 (+25% MA*)	~25~450 (No alch/70% wind/45% MA*)	N.A.200-250 (+45% MA*)
En-Tai Destroyer**	~4200~5400	~3600~4600	~1300~4600	~450~4100	~50~3900	N.A.~2800