Shaman balancing

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    • unforgiven wrote:

      So, as last question:
      - If I request that there no change will happen to Dragon Shaman the players here will be happy? (this doesn't mean that it will happen!)
      this will include:
      - no increase in damage in any way
      - no changes on how the skills work
      - no change at all only for Dragon Shaman
      Im gonna say yes, even im playing healer. Also i would be happier if healers stay as the same too.

    • Quelin wrote:

      unforgiven wrote:

      So, as last question:
      - If I request that there no change will happen to Dragon Shaman the players here will be happy? (this doesn't mean that it will happen!)
      this will include:
      - no increase in damage in any way
      - no changes on how the skills work
      - no change at all only for Dragon Shaman
      Im gonna say yes, even im playing healer. Also i would be happier if healers stay as the same too.
      Of course you say yes... I think they are not seeing the real problem.
      Let's see: Shaman dragon force vs healing force

    • unforgiven wrote:

      So, as last question:
      - If I request that there no change will happen to Dragon Shaman the players here will be happy? (this doesn't mean that it will happen!)
      this will include:
      - no increase in damage in any way
      - no changes on how the skills work
      - no change at all only for Dragon Shaman
      The dragon shaman needs changes and I will make a list of the changes that I have found positive at least in my opinion:
      - That the probability of being burned has increased his% in his abilities like Dragon Roar and Shot Dragon.
      - To have added the effect of Slow to him in Flying talisman.
      - The change in roar in the way you cast it and have slightly expanded your attack area.
      - The slight improvement that has received the Chaman regarding how to scale their physical damage with stats, which makes it slightly better than the current server.
      These 4 improvements I think would make the dragon finally have a greater utility to the current.
      Now the negative changes are these in my opinion.

      - That they can only use their auras in themselves or in a group way. As I said in another post, it would be good if you can raise the idea that the shaman can choose an option to be able to give auras individually or as a group (as if it were a skill by the mere fact of being shaman). Since this point really affects the daily life mainly of the dragon shamans and shamans heal to a lesser extent. If it were possible to carry out the idea that I pose, this would be a great step
      - The cooldown they have given to most auras in shamans except to reflect and heal. This is a great counter and is one of the main criticisms that exists because it mainly affects pvm like pvp. Since one in bosses dies of normal way or also the own shamans in pvp do not last more than 30 seconds or 20 some present fights and they have to recharge auras and they will not be able to by the great extensive cooldown that there is, and not to speak in case they face a sura mirror and pull them dispel. The current 10-second time works fine and I think it should not be modified or at most if you want to restrict it a little, in case you have activated the option of giving auras in a group way which mentions before, that as much the cooldown is of 60 seconds or so. Since much more cooldown time, it is too much. This is an important point to keep in mind.
      - The great low% of Dragon Aid. The truth is I do not see it positive that we play one of the main skills of the dragon shamans to make this balance of trying to lower all possible damage since the problem lies not in the% of critics and etc but in many other things that affect the pvp (anti magic stones, clothes, items with dragon marks that give damage or other things that exist).
      - Increased damage by having one type of weapon depending on the class of shaman you are. This is a negative change due to the moment of the game in which they want to implement it, we are in a moment that the game is very advanced to change basic things, and especially touch the weapons or armors which have cost a lot of money to do them or time or whatever has cost for each case, is not something that is positive. For this very reason I believe that this point does not have to go ahead since the only beneficiaries for as it is done mainly are the healing shaman, since they will have access to the fanes which obviously possess greater magical attack and thus they will be able to take advantage of the extra to him extra of 10% they want to implement. It is more the shaman healing is a character who no longer needs more advantages, as it currently works well. The dragon shaman instead has always had problems and I think that with the points I name on the positive list would be a way to balance a little the balance between them.
      -The way you scale the skill attack on a healing shaman. I think this skill should be able to have a much higher limit if one gets to go full stats. The maximum point should be around 80 to 90 for others and the shaman himself give 20% extra. In this way it would be much more useful and the difference would be noticed when one possesses this ability. The only change that I propose in this skill besides the change of its damage, would be that instead of climbing with strength and intelligence, to scale its damage with intelligence and dexterity, is more this way would be more in line with the update they are doing already that shamans now increase their damage by putting points on intelligence and dexterity. Perhaps 70% of the attack aura could come from intelligence and the remaining 30% from dexterity.
      I hope this is read because in part I have spoken to many people and most ask what I am saying in this post, maybe some details touches to expand them but I hope this feedback is taken into account for this update and it looks more clearly what are the positive and negative points in the changes they are implementing in the game.
      It is very important that we take into account since this update as it comes so far, affects the game too much and I think it will end up destroying the morale of many in the game as you are seeing right here in the beta.
      JonyBelmont, Body Warrior lv112. Metin2.es Server: Nemesis.

    • unforgiven wrote:

      So, as last question:
      - If I request that there no change will happen to Dragon Shaman the players here will be happy? (this doesn't mean that it will happen!)
      this will include:
      - no increase in damage in any way
      - no changes on how the skills work
      - no change at all only for Dragon Shaman
      So, you think that instead of try to aply what all the comunities players ask for is better to ignor all the actual problems that shamans have an leave as they are now???

      1- Shamans need more AV (you might like or not, but that is a fact)

      2- Speficication on weapons is useless, as u said on other post bells are for pv3 and fans for pvp, so done mess with players by having to craft a pvp bell (yes, is sounds like a joke)

      3- If you think shamans need a bost on theyr skills (it is a reall need) why don't you just increase de vaue of the skills or the mav of the shamans weapons??

      4- The changes in stats is useless, if i have to renounce to 90 vit for that small increase on some skills. This does not worth

      5- Dragon shamans are the most important character on this game, but not for theyr dmg neither in pve nor pvm instead for blessing and dragon's aid you know why ? because no viable as pve nor pvm so people use them for just that 2 skills and if u nerf them lost of players not only the main characters, but lots of players will leave this game.

      pd: if you really wana do some great thing just keep in mind those 5 points.
      “Although there is no progress without change, not all change is progress.”
      :!: John Robert Wooden :!:
      Customer complaints are the schoolbooks from which we learn.
      Lou Guerstner

    • 1 - Dragon Shaman got more Attack Value > They will not get the same as normal Melee Character
      2 - It lets you level up so much easier since your skills deal more damage. PvP gets also easier because skills deal more damage and you do not need to tank to cast them. Ok, you do not have a specific weapon at the moment but you are still going to deal more damage independently!
      3 - This doesn't work like this, it isn't just "increase values". There were some downsides to this increase > cooldown for buffs - which counterbalanced the increase in damage.
      4 - This is a matter of specialization. If you wish, you do not put VIT but STR or DEX: It is your prerogative. IF you do not think it is worth, do not do it but that doesn't mean that the possibility should be removed.
      5 - They might be the most important character in the game because of the buffs but they are mostly passively played and turned completely superfluous by every single player having their own private Buff Shaman.

      All in all, at the moment you deal enough damage to actually farm with a Shaman with a Mix of Melee Damage and Skill Damage and you are asking us to remove this chance. This is how I currently see things.

    • unforgiven wrote:

      1 - Dragon Shaman got more Attack Value > They will not get the same as normal Melee Character
      2 - It lets you level up so much easier since your skills deal more damage. PvP gets also easier because skills deal more damage and you do not need to tank to cast them. Ok, you do not have a specific weapon at the moment but you are still going to deal more damage independently!
      3 - This doesn't work like this, it isn't just "increase values". There were some downsides to this increase > cooldown for buffs - which counterbalanced the increase in damage.
      4 - This is a matter of specialization. If you wish, you do not put VIT but STR or DEX: It is your prerogative. IF you do not think it is worth, do not do it but that doesn't mean that the possibility should be removed.
      5 - They might be the most important character in the game because of the buffs but they are mostly passively played and turned completely superfluous by every single player having their own private Buff Shaman.

      All in all, at the moment you deal enough damage to actually farm with a Shaman with a Mix of Melee Damage and Skill Damage and you are asking us to remove this chance. This is how I currently see things.
      Can you explain better the point 3? Why higher cooldown buffs should counterbalance the increment in damage?


      YoTeDoPo wrote:

      After all the comments, i think you don't understad that dragon shamans need changes, but not bell damage and buff nerfs. The new changes in Flying Talisman, Dragon Shooting and Dragon Roar's are nice, but together with the nerf of buffs and the stupid idea of class specific weapon we have a negative balance with all the changes (with 30% of additional damage obviously dragon shamans are going to be better, but this means throw all our fans and redo all our weapons, an this is the point that I think is the worst in the whole update).I have repeated this a lot of times: Dragon's Shamans need the damage, but forcing eldest players to change all their weapons (done with a lot of money, patience and time) is not a good solution (while Healing Shamans can use their fans with more damage).
      I'm sorry but I don't agree with you about complaining that you'll have to change weapon.
      If these changes has to be done they can't care about your fans. If they thought about these things every time there is an update the game would stay always the same.
      When they introduced lykans there were LOTS OF people with final items but then claw defence just ruined it all. I think that you changing your fans it s really a matter of minor importance.

      But I agree with all the rest.

      The post was edited 4 times, last by Priore ().

    • unforgiven wrote:

      The chance is not directly about Shamans, this is the reason why we are trying to expand the ownbuff from Shamans even further. And reducing by from 50% to 30%, 33% for Dragon Shaman, is not nerfing to the ground, the only situation is when you have no other way of getting critical chance... but that is a completely different problem.
      Ok, it's starting to make sense. But if it doesn't concern Shamans directly I don't find it fair to make them pay for other reasons of gaming. And in order to make it just the ownbuff should be higher.
      Let's see this even further how far is.

      ps: this is not a good choice neither for shamans doll owners nor for main shamans

      - Reducing the critical hit chance the buff gives (trade-off with decreased cooldown; values are still not known)

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Priore ().

    • Priore,

      Of course that there will be some damage loss but we need to start the whole balancing somewhere and we are trying to reduce the damage.

      With this update, PvE will become easier for Shamans, a bit harder for other classes because of the reduction of Dragon Aid. PvP will be more tactical and less damage will be dealt overall - less 1 hit kills. Ok, critical might have less power here but it will make it more fun because it will take more time to kill other characters.

    • unforgiven wrote:

      So, as last question:
      - If I request that there no change will happen to Dragon Shaman the players here will be happy? (this doesn't mean that it will happen!)
      this will include:
      - no increase in damage in any way
      - no changes on how the skills work
      - no change at all only for Dragon Shaman
      Sure.
      the change would be helpful if it was proportional.for example: + damage = % critical + Cd. Or + damage - % critical = Cd.But if the webzen increases damage and Cd. and minimizes % critics , it is useless since more damage could get it with more critical shots.

    • unforgiven wrote:

      Priore,

      Of course that there will be some damage loss but we need to start the whole balancing somewhere and we are trying to reduce the damage.

      With this update, PvE will become easier for Shamans, a bit harder for other classes because of the reduction of Dragon Aid. PvP will be more tactical and less damage will be dealt overall - less 1 hit kills. Ok, critical might have less power here but it will make it more fun because it will take more time to kill other characters
      First of all, I don't understand why you speak like all this updates are good for the balancing ?( People are not happy with this changes on shamans. If you check the communities of M2 on each country most of the feedbacks in this matter are against it. So why impose this updates if most of the players are not happy with?

    • unforgiven wrote:

      Priore,

      Of course that there will be some damage loss but we need to start the whole balancing somewhere and we are trying to reduce the damage.

      With this update, PvE will become easier for Shamans, a bit harder for other classes because of the reduction of Dragon Aid. PvP will be more tactical and less damage will be dealt overall - less 1 hit kills. Ok, critical might have less power here but it will make it more fun because it will take more time to kill other characters.
      I see what you are trying to do but it is not possible in my opinion.

      Critical hits in PvP just deal 300 dmg more than normal hits. This will result in making duels last more but along with it it will cause the death of this bonus. Why should I put critical hits in my PvP equipment? To deal 300 dmg more sporadically? Is it worthy? I don't think so. And this is also a nerf of Dragon's aid itself in duels for dragon shamans. Other character can change equip but we cannot change our skill.


      helena wrote:

      unforgiven wrote:

      Priore,

      Of course that there will be some damage loss but we need to start the whole balancing somewhere and we are trying to reduce the damage.

      With this update, PvE will become easier for Shamans, a bit harder for other classes because of the reduction of Dragon Aid. PvP will be more tactical and less damage will be dealt overall - less 1 hit kills. Ok, critical might have less power here but it will make it more fun because it will take more time to kill other characters
      First of all, I don't understand why you speak like all this updates are good for the balancing ?( People are not happy with this changes on shamans. If you check the communities of M2 on each country most of the feedbacks in this matter are against it. So why impose this updates if most of the players are not happy with?

      Because or we get along with this or we won't receive any kind of buff. Personally, I really want a buff in skill damage.
      Let's think twice.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Priore ().

    • unforgiven wrote:

      Ok, critical might have less power here but it will make it more fun because it will take more time to kill other characters.
      Crit as a bonus will become a lot less usefull in pvp. If you want to take dmg out of pvp, then there are others ways too. You can make the 15% dmg from khan-pets etc only against monsters for example, there are multiple ways. No need to kill a bonus inside the existing pvp equipment or skills everybody worked for to build.

    • unforgiven wrote:

      So, as last question:
      - If I request that there no change will happen to Dragon Shaman the players here will be happy? (this doesn't mean that it will happen!)
      this will include:
      - no increase in damage in any way
      - no changes on how the skills work
      - no change at all only for Dragon Shaman

      Hello all!
      It is my opinion, as healer shaman, that we must sacrifice the some buff-power for the attack-skill-force. We must decide that we become active and fighting member of our group or we remain passive and silent helper per member.
      Dragon- or healing force are never mind. If we want be stronger than we must sacrifice the some buff-power for the attack-skill-force.
      This is my position!

    • helena wrote:

      unforgiven wrote:

      Priore,

      Of course that there will be some damage loss but we need to start the whole balancing somewhere and we are trying to reduce the damage.

      With this update, PvE will become easier for Shamans, a bit harder for other classes because of the reduction of Dragon Aid. PvP will be more tactical and less damage will be dealt overall - less 1 hit kills. Ok, critical might have less power here but it will make it more fun because it will take more time to kill other characters
      First of all, I don't understand why you speak like all this updates are good for the balancing ?( People are not happy with this changes on shamans. If you check the communities of M2 on each country most of the feedbacks in this matter are against it. So why impose this updates if most of the players are not happy with?
      I say it as a shaman-owner. I don't want this balance.