Shaman balancing

    Dear players,

    please read >> here <<.

    Thank you for being a part of this!

    • helena wrote:

      Hi again,

      So the dragon's roar's diminution by distance have been confirmed.

      But I still haven't got my answer from @unforgiven, you keep telling us that shamans gained independence in PvM but never said how? ?( What changed for us that we could do PvM easier then the live servers.
      Ain't much that changed, critic it's pretty much the same (on self), blessing the same, we get like 200-300 increase in normal hits since now it depends on int not str and we got an increase dmg when using skills in pvm (we never use them).
      Leaving that aside, as i said dragon shaman can resist as good as healing shaman in Enchanted Forest and pretty much the same on lvl 95-120 metin. I have made 2 short videos while beating a 120 metin stone there, one with buffs and the outher one w/o buffs, guess what? I don't see any difference, maybe with buff was 10 secounds faster, i have used the same equip on both test's, items are the one i use on live server, matt alchemy, 10 berseker from pet etc. So no really expensive stuff's was used and just 2 temporary items (costumes). I don't know about outhers but i tend to go for higher lvl only when i can buy an Lolly the Mighty just to make it easier and get better exp. U can check my equip in video.





      With that in mind i don't understand why @unforgiven thinks that our pvp dmg should be lower then healing shaman dmg. Healing shaman have the same importance since 15-20 critics will make a lot of things harder to farm/kill in a group so the need for a heal might be vital in most situations.

      As i said we have blessing that suppose to help us but combined with low dmg in most scenarios will just make us last few moments more then a healing shaman but that's it. We can solo any decent boss that healing shaman can't do, and i think that i demonstrated it that in Enchanted Forest or any metin stones we are equal as healing shaman.

      We don't ask for more dmg, we deserve the same dmg as healing shaman, i don't complain about critics anymore it will affect us but in the same way will make us unique since only dragon shaman can have 40-45 critics from dragon strength and i like it and that's how i think it should be.

    • unforgiven wrote:

      The problem here is expectation. Players expect that balancing means that every ones damage will get buffed and that's it. There are trade-offs that need to happen.

      Let's see what changed:
      + Shamans overall got more independence for PvE
      + Skill damage got beefed up
      + Melee damage got increased and was align to be easier to maximise in comparison with the character itself (STR+INT vs INT+DEX > DEX gives damage reduction!)
      + Skill like Dragon Roar doesn't need to be cast next to the target
      + Higher Damage and Bigger AoEs
      + Higher chance of Burning Fire which doesn't let bosses and monsters regenerate HP
      + Anti-magic stones which are more balancing in high-powered PvP but can be extremely unbalanced in low to mid-powered PvP
      + Increase of the blessing %

      - Reduction of Critical Hit chance from Dragon Aid (From 50%+ to 15,5%; but for oneself, it can reach 30~50%)
      - Dragon Shaman can deal more damage with Bells instead of Fans - no PvP Bells existing in the servers
      - You cannot buff players outside of party


      Generalised reduction of Critical Hit Damage in PvP. Continues the same in PvE.
      @unforgiven i think you are wrong... Lasting fire let's boss's and monster regenerate hp... It will be good if not, but i tested it with new fire efect and boss's continue regenerate hp.

    • On the other side in PvP it doesn't let the opponent regenerates...or at least it regenerates differently. I was testing this and I can tell you it's working. EVERY time when I was on fire, my PV bar was staying at the current level and was not increasing despite the fact that I had an active elixir. Even if I was regenerating it was VERY slowly compared to how normaly it does. Maybe in PvM it's the same, bosses regenerates but much slowly compared to when they don't have fire

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Rapier ().

    • Rapier wrote:

      On the other side in PvP it doesn't let the opponent regenerates...or at least it regenerates differently. I was testing this and I can tell you it's working. EVERY time when I was on fire, my PV bar was staying at the current level and was not increasing despite the fact that I had an active elixir. Even if I was regenerating it was VERY slowly compared to how normaly it does. Maybe in PvM it's the same, bosses regenerates but much slowly compared to when they don't have fire
      Try it again... I tested both sides, pvp and pvm side and in both hp still regenerate... Of course you cn't move and you will lose some hp, but you still regenerate. Unfs here said Burning Fire doesn't let boss's and mobs regen and this was wrong...

    • I will recheck again but while lasting fire is happening, there should be no HP regen - maybe I am mixing it up with other DoT.


      @helena, improvement in Dragon's Blessing damage reduction, and Dragon Shaman has higher chance of crits inherently.

      Regarding PvP. I am discussing this with WebZen but let's not forget that Bells would be the best for Dragon Shaman and currently there aren't many around.

    • unforgiven wrote:

      Apollykan wrote:

      99% of the players dont want this changes. Why do it?
      They run the game but its our game, we pay and spend good money on this we must what we want, or will be no players left
      This whole skill changes, balancing changes are tied together, they are a package. If you remove point G then point A doesn't work anymore. It is not as simple as switching it off.
      nobody was complaining about the game the way it was, just the bugs that exist

    • unforgiven wrote:

      Apollykan wrote:

      nobody was complaining about the game the way it was, just the bugs that exist
      There were, and are, tons of requests to balance the game. Maybe players expected just a damage increase to everyone and that's it. This is not the case.


      @TcatalunyaT,
      I will recheck in the documents about that, maybe I am mixing up with other DoT. Thanks for the video!
      this was a pvm balance not pvp, nerfing the buffs ( nobody asked for it) nerfing the lykans( some asked for it, but they are some low ego kids who istead of buyinh claw defense came crying to forums) to to the point that the best pvm characters are back to being weapon sura and body warrior the precious mainstream people chracter, instead of nerfing the healing shaman abused power in pvp or black magic sura

    • @unforgiven we undrstand that balancing is not a simple task, but you must agree that the changes in shamans remove the little advantage that dragons had on pve and brake us in pvp due to the bells, the low critic on pvp and the new way skills are boosted.

      That is what happens we need 3 stats and reounce to a lot of hp and one of those stats jst increases the mav of some skills (str) neither the av dmg nor any other boost, and as no earrings with int and hp, and antimagic stones (makes us loose 1 slot for a litle more dmg when oponent goes full), and forbidding us to cast buff on characters that arent in group its too much the nerf you can pinpoint al the advantages and disventages and say it as you want but this is why why are not happyqut this un"balancing"
      “Although there is no progress without change, not all change is progress.”
      :!: John Robert Wooden :!:
      Customer complaints are the schoolbooks from which we learn.
      Lou Guerstner

    • unforgiven wrote:

      @helena, improvement in Dragon's Blessing damage reduction, and Dragon Shaman has higher chance of crits inherently.
      Your conclusion is: Dragon Shamans are better now because the rest of classes are worse than before. Is a stupid way of balancing, on average, we are worse than before in PvE and we cannot do anything special alone (maybe some easy bosses and metins).
      The % of Dragon's Aid should 25% at P and 50% self. Increase the cooldown to 20 o 30 seconds if you want, but we really need a higher % adn everyona who has a buffer too, is stupid this situation, Critical Strike or Red Dew give more chance of critical hit than a Perfect Master skill.

      Also, if you continue with the great idea of bells for dragon shamans, is better a 30% than 10%... And reduce to 15-20% the damage with fans to Healing Shamans (I PREFER FOR BOTH AN INCREASE OF DAMAGE WITH FANS).

    • unforgiven wrote:

      @helena, improvement in Dragon's Blessing damage reduction, and Dragon Shaman has higher chance of crits inherently.

      Regarding PvP. I am discussing this with WebZen but let's not forget that Bells would be the best for Dragon Shaman and currently there aren't many around.
      Hi @unforgiven, thanks for your return. But things you said doesn't mean that now we can PvM easier. Nothing changed in our buffs since when we cast on ourself we get the same value that we got now from the live servers ( even got nerfed) So I believe you should draw back your statement about dragon shamans on PvM.


      Yes a balancing should be made between all classes equally, but why making the game harder for dragon shaman's? There are not much discussions on other class's feedbacks. They haven't been affected from the updates as we did.


      Dragon shamans have 6 skills, one just got nerfed ( dragon's aid) and one is completly ineffective (reflect). So we are left with 4 skill. I don't see any balancing there when we are the only class suffering from the updates.

    • YoTeDoPo wrote:

      unforgiven wrote:

      @helena, improvement in Dragon's Blessing damage reduction, and Dragon Shaman has higher chance of crits inherently.
      Your conclusion is: Dragon Shamans are better now because the rest of classes are worse than before. Is a stupid way of balancing, on average, we are worse than before in PvE and we cannot do anything special alone (maybe some easy bosses and metins).The % of Dragon's Aid should 25% at P and 50% self. Increase the cooldown to 20 o 30 seconds if you want, but we really need a higher % adn everyona who has a buffer too, is stupid this situation, Critical Strike or Red Dew give more chance of critical hit than a Perfect Master skill.

      Also, if you continue with the great idea of bells for dragon shamans, is better a 30% than 10%... And reduce to 15-20% the damage with fans to Healing Shamans (I PREFER FOR BOTH AN INCREASE OF DAMAGE WITH FANS).

      Why must it reduce the healer's skill attack? We have not very very much damages by pve and pvp.
      the healer and the dragon shamans require other tactics! They have other force and they ara in other goods!
      The dragon shaman have lasting fire, the healer have not it. The healer shaman needs more skill damage as for dragon shaman, because the healing shaman have not lasting fire, bleeding or poison. But it do not need so lots.
      You have true than the dragon's aid give lesser critical hits as red dew or critical strike. The dragon's aid must give 25-30% critical hits, this would be more critical hit as red dew or critical strike. It is no problem, if the dragon's aid gets more cooldown time, so 20-30 sec, but it want give 25-30% critical hits.
      I do not notice the weapon-bonus by shamans. Namely the bell damage lesser as fan by the shaman's attacker skills. I do not understand it!
      I have a request, than the dragon's aid give 25-30% critical hits, and It is no problem, if the dragon's aid gets more cooldown time, so 20-30 sec.


      helena wrote:

      Dragon shamans have 6 skills, one just got nerfed ( dragon's aid) and one is completly ineffective (reflect). So we are left with 4 skill. I don't see any balancing there when we are the only class suffering from the updates.
      You have very true! It is sad fact. But attack up is useless skill by healer shaman.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Attis85 ().

    • @Attis85 I don't think that attack up is useless, it is an important skill in my opinion, even befor the beta. Attack up gives +%60 STR in perfect master with full INT, which is more than what 92 or 94 biologist quest gives when you choose STR. And now that STR is an option for shamans to increase magical attacks (+ physical attacks) , attack up will be very effective for heallers. :)


      So again dragon shamans are left with reflect which does nothing ||

    • helena wrote:

      @Attis85 I don't think that attack up is useless, it is an important skill in my opinion, even befor the beta. Attack up gives +%60 STR in perfect master with full INT, which is more than what 92 or 94 biologist quest gives when you choose STR. And now that STR is an option for shamans to increase magical attacks (+ physical attacks) , attack up will be very effective for heallers. :)


      So again dragon shamans are left with reflect which does nothing ||
      STR gives magical attack, but attack value doesn't increase amgical attack.