Shaman balancing

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    • YoTeDoPo wrote:

      helena wrote:

      @Attis85 I don't think that attack up is useless, it is an important skill in my opinion, even befor the beta. Attack up gives +%60 STR in perfect master with full INT, which is more than what 92 or 94 biologist quest gives when you choose STR. And now that STR is an option for shamans to increase magical attacks (+ physical attacks) , attack up will be very effective for heallers. :)


      So again dragon shamans are left with reflect which does nothing ||
      STR gives magical attack, but attack value doesn't increase amgical attack.
      I have not attack up on level p. But i thank you the Information.
      The reflect is useless still, but i do not than how can the reflect use well.

    • unforgiven wrote:

      Apollykan wrote:

      nobody was complaining about the game the way it was, just the bugs that exist
      There were, and are, tons of requests to balance the game. Maybe players expected just a damage increase to everyone and that's it. This is not the case.


      @TcatalunyaT,
      I will recheck in the documents about that, maybe I am mixing up with other DoT. Thanks for the video!


      Answer my Question @unforgiven Do you know that with this uptade you will lose 30/40% players on servers ? Just Answer Yes or No

    • maybe that is bc theyknow that 50% of players disagree with changes and hate the management of metin (imformation source: the last part of interview released) so if this 50% leave the game, all the players will love them :3.
      Now seriously, why do this?
      maybe we need another point of fiew to this threat.

      @Comkra what do you think about all this complains about shamans and what are you planing o solve them?
      “Although there is no progress without change, not all change is progress.”
      :!: John Robert Wooden :!:
      Customer complaints are the schoolbooks from which we learn.
      Lou Guerstner

    • @unforgiven from what i ve been reading here and talk to several players plus my opnion only the following changes i ve been accepted by the general metin players

      Give some power in PVE to shamans something like giving shaman some physical attack value but to fans and bells.

      Fix some of the dragon shamans skills on the range.

      Dont nerf buffs that much especially the cooldown, the group buff is fine.

      Nerfing to the lykans only in INT power to the crimson and some pierce

      changes to dispell working only in a certain range of levels is fair just like bleeding poison etc.

      Stats on ninja dont need a change.
      critical must keep being double the damage.

      Pierce over 100% dont have any advantage.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Apollykan ().

    • Attis85 wrote:

      Why must it reduce the healer's skill attack?
      Because of this Video.


      Now on the topic; @unforgiven, I can clearly see that the developers has a vision regarding this balancing and I'm fully aware that they know stuff we just don't know yet or we're not meant to know ever about the game function
      But from what I can see with their premature changes makes me worry
      First with the unbelievable piercing hits and then with nerfing the lycan hard then buffing it's skill duration, we see that again with buffing shaman's with fans/bells to 30% then nerfing it to 10%
      This makes me think that they don't know what they are doing and just rely heavily on our feedback which they shouldn't because no player understands the game from all angles the way the developers do

      I just want this game to be balanced, and till now it's not and nothing they changed apart from the piercing hits was balancing... critical hits ? shaman buffs and skills ? class resistance new functionality ? buff this nerf that ...
      I hope that i just can't see the full picture yet.
      Let's just hope that the full package at the end comes nice and clear.

    • Good night @unforgiven
      Don't take this as a personal attack, for I know that the guilt of these changes isn't just about you, but I have to be a little rough this time.
      This will be the last time I will express myself in this forum if I don't see that we are walking in the right direction, because everyone sees that GF ignore what the players say, so much so that in the forum of our country we all complain the same.

      First point and the most important question of all is this: who's making changes have any idea of what the game is like? Because with these changes, increasingly worse by the way, it seems that they are changing randomly. If a race was already OP, and the players said they should reduce the damage, it isn't to increase the damage that will be the solution, I think that isn't necessary a genius to realize it. However ... the healing shamans at this stage are stupidly strong. Is it possible to have no critical sense in GF to see this?
      Then the buffs ... Here I don't even deserve comment. Buffs are essential to any character, and most important of all, to the shamans themselves. If the race is already weak to make PvE, what will become of them now that they have a ridiculous cooldown and a very low percentage of buffs?
      And since we're talking about cooldown, what kind of cooldown is that for the crimson wolf's soul? They reduce the damage, reduce the cooldown, reduce the piercings ... You have gone from eight to eighty. Lycan needs a nerf, but attention that GF doesn't need to make lycan one of the weakest characters to do that, after all the goal is to put all races more or less on an equal footing.

      Summarizing what GF should be done is as follows:
      - Lycan: Reduce the damage of the crimson, not in the totality but for example in the way the crimson increases with the intelligence, in order to stay about 500/600 attack value with full INT. Reduce the percentage of piercings, keep the normal cooldown. Remove the chance / bug from the wolf's breathe to deal damage by doubling or tripling.
      - In the dragon shamans, keep the buffs as they are. If you want to benefit the own character, put a cooldown of a few seconds (for example 20 or 30 seconds), it is possible to give buffs to all members of the group at the same time, that's fine. But don't touch the percentage or put that cooldown that is at least stupid.

      - Heal Shamans: Reduce their damage. Doesn't makes any sense to have 100%+ resistance and take 19k damage. No other race does that.
      - Change the way of acting anti-magic stones, in the end, the fault of this stones are destabilizing PvP is because GF has added this "solution".

      And the most essential of all and what I think is more important to point out is the following:
      DON'T CHANGE WHAT IT'S OK! CHANGE WHAT'S WRONG!
      And what's wrong has been said already thousands and thousands of times by the players. So I urge you to stop looking at your wallet for a moment and see the following scenario:
      Without players, there is no profit. If they keep and captivate the players there is profit. Basic logic.

      And my excitement is this, I hope that the "upper layers" reach my suggestions, which are in fact the suggestions of all players. Sorry for any grammar errors.

    • curioso2 wrote:

      Good night @unforgiven
      Don't take this as a personal attack, for I know that the guilt of these changes isn't just about you, but I have to be a little rough this time.
      This will be the last time I will express myself in this forum if I don't see that we are walking in the right direction, because everyone sees that GF ignore what the players say, so much so that in the forum of our country we all complain the same.

      First point and the most important question of all is this: who's making changes have any idea of what the game is like? Because with these changes, increasingly worse by the way, it seems that they are changing randomly. If a race was already OP, and the players said they should reduce the damage, it isn't to increase the damage that will be the solution, I think that isn't necessary a genius to realize it. However ... the healing shamans at this stage are stupidly strong. Is it possible to have no critical sense in GF to see this?
      Then the buffs ... Here I don't even deserve comment. Buffs are essential to any character, and most important of all, to the shamans themselves. If the race is already weak to make PvE, what will become of them now that they have a ridiculous cooldown and a very low percentage of buffs?
      And since we're talking about cooldown, what kind of cooldown is that for the crimson wolf's soul? They reduce the damage, reduce the cooldown, reduce the piercings ... You have gone from eight to eighty. Lycan needs a nerf, but attention that GF doesn't need to make lycan one of the weakest characters to do that, after all the goal is to put all races more or less on an equal footing.

      Summarizing what GF should be done is as follows:
      - Lycan: Reduce the damage of the crimson, not in the totality but for example in the way the crimson increases with the intelligence, in order to stay about 500/600 attack value with full INT. Reduce the percentage of piercings, keep the normal cooldown. Remove the chance / bug from the wolf's breathe to deal damage by doubling or tripling.
      - In the dragon shamans, keep the buffs as they are. If you want to benefit the own character, put a cooldown of a few seconds (for example 20 or 30 seconds), it is possible to give buffs to all members of the group at the same time, that's fine. But don't touch the percentage or put that cooldown that is at least stupid.

      - Heal Shamans: Reduce their damage. Doesn't makes any sense to have 100%+ resistance and take 19k damage. No other race does that.
      - Change the way of acting anti-magic stones, in the end, the fault of this stones are destabilizing PvP is because GF has added this "solution".

      And the most essential of all and what I think is more important to point out is the following:
      DON'T CHANGE WHAT IT'S OK! CHANGE WHAT'S WRONG!
      And what's wrong has been said already thousands and thousands of times by the players. So I urge you to stop looking at your wallet for a moment and see the following scenario:
      Without players, there is no profit. If they keep and captivate the players there is profit. Basic logic.

      And my excitement is this, I hope that the "upper layers" reach my suggestions, which are in fact the suggestions of all players. Sorry for any grammar errors.
      I marked some things i thinks you don't know.
      -You said to reduce lycan damage to about 500-600 full int... Is that what they already have done... 360 90 int and 500-600 with 90+ int... Here, in my personal opinion they need to make lycan with 500-600 but with just 90 int, like sura and warriors.
      -Lycan piercing is already reduced too... 60% to 20%.. Is fine.
      -Dragon Shamans cooldown is fine now (10 sec), but the Dragon Aid % is too low.
      -Anti-Magic i think is fine too, they changed it... Now player need more % of anti magic to reduce the same amount of magic resistance as they do in live servers...

      What they definetly need to do is reduce Healers PvP damage... This is a priority right now.
      They need also review the probability of happening a crit using normal hits and give critics 50-60% damage (and it need to be a 50-60% in total dealt damage, not base damage)... If they don't want to change critic damage, so call it anything else but not critic... I intend to crit a big amount of damage dealt, anything bigger than a normal damage... If you do 5k damage and 5,500 critic this is just funny.. because a piercing in this particular case is better than a critic.

      Waiting to see good changes...

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Th3Original ().

    • Ponze wrote:

      Overall the things I want to be modified in priority:

      -Critial hit damages in PvP => at least +50% damage
      -Dragon chaman critical buff should be increased with INT
      -Bell/fan bonus should be 20%, not 10% this is useless
      -STR should NOT increase the chaman's skills' damages.
      -ALL BUFFS should be used without a party.
      @Priore

      Motivations are (a lot of people already wrote them):

      1) Because of huge devaluation of critical bonus of the gear, and in order to keep the dragon chaman's perks in PvP. If you play a dragon chaman you want BURST, and no critical = no burst.

      2)Because INT is already everywhere in chaman's gear !! And because 15% crit isn't enough for PvE.

      3)If it's 10%, it will not be enough to justify to use bells. And this will make healers even better compared to dragons in PvP. As well as healers will not use fans instead of bells for PvE.

      4)Why STR? This makes no sense. A chaman isn't a warrior, we fight with magic skills.

      5)Because of party size and lv restrictions for parties.

    • Th3Original wrote:

      curioso2 wrote:

      Good night @unforgiven
      Don't take this as a personal attack, for I know that the guilt of these changes isn't just about you, but I have to be a little rough this time.
      This will be the last time I will express myself in this forum if I don't see that we are walking in the right direction, because everyone sees that GF ignore what the players say, so much so that in the forum of our country we all complain the same.

      First point and the most important question of all is this: who's making changes have any idea of what the game is like? Because with these changes, increasingly worse by the way, it seems that they are changing randomly. If a race was already OP, and the players said they should reduce the damage, it isn't to increase the damage that will be the solution, I think that isn't necessary a genius to realize it. However ... the healing shamans at this stage are stupidly strong. Is it possible to have no critical sense in GF to see this?
      Then the buffs ... Here I don't even deserve comment. Buffs are essential to any character, and most important of all, to the shamans themselves. If the race is already weak to make PvE, what will become of them now that they have a ridiculous cooldown and a very low percentage of buffs?
      And since we're talking about cooldown, what kind of cooldown is that for the crimson wolf's soul? They reduce the damage, reduce the cooldown, reduce the piercings ... You have gone from eight to eighty. Lycan needs a nerf, but attention that GF doesn't need to make lycan one of the weakest characters to do that, after all the goal is to put all races more or less on an equal footing.

      Summarizing what GF should be done is as follows:
      - Lycan: Reduce the damage of the crimson, not in the totality but for example in the way the crimson increases with the intelligence, in order to stay about 500/600 attack value with full INT. Reduce the percentage of piercings, keep the normal cooldown. Remove the chance / bug from the wolf's breathe to deal damage by doubling or tripling.
      - In the dragon shamans, keep the buffs as they are. If you want to benefit the own character, put a cooldown of a few seconds (for example 20 or 30 seconds), it is possible to give buffs to all members of the group at the same time, that's fine. But don't touch the percentage or put that cooldown that is at least stupid.

      - Heal Shamans: Reduce their damage. Doesn't makes any sense to have 100%+ resistance and take 19k damage. No other race does that.
      - Change the way of acting anti-magic stones, in the end, the fault of this stones are destabilizing PvP is because GF has added this "solution".

      And the most essential of all and what I think is more important to point out is the following:
      DON'T CHANGE WHAT IT'S OK! CHANGE WHAT'S WRONG!
      And what's wrong has been said already thousands and thousands of times by the players. So I urge you to stop looking at your wallet for a moment and see the following scenario:
      Without players, there is no profit. If they keep and captivate the players there is profit. Basic logic.

      And my excitement is this, I hope that the "upper layers" reach my suggestions, which are in fact the suggestions of all players. Sorry for any grammar errors.
      I marked some things i thinks you don't know.-You said to reduce lycan damage to about 500-600 full int... Is that what they already have done... 360 90 int and 500-600 with 90+ int... Here, in my personal opinion they need to make lycan with 500-600 but with just 90 int, like sura and warriors.
      -Lycan piercing is already reduced too... 60% to 20%.. Is fine.
      -Dragon Shamans cooldown is fine now (10 sec), but the Dragon Aid % is too low.
      -Anti-Magic i think is fine too, they changed it... Now player need more % of anti magic to reduce the same amount of magic resistance as they do in live servers...

      What they definetly need to do is reduce Healers PvP damage... This is a priority right now.
      They need also review the probability of happening a crit using normal hits and give critics 50-60% damage (and it need to be a 50-60% in total dealt damage, not base damage)... If they don't want to change critic damage, so call it anything else but not critic... I intend to crit a big amount of damage dealt, anything bigger than a normal damage... If you do 5k damage and 5,500 critic this is just funny.. because a piercing in this particular case is better than a critic.

      Waiting to see good changes...
      Yes, you're right, I don't know. Honestly, and I hope you don't crucify me for it, I've never set foot in Beta, I don't have time to play anything. I just see the comments and videos to get a sense of how things are. Even if I am not there, is possible to verify the strambolities that go there.
      As for the damage of the crimson, I'm sorry, that's not the way I meant it, and you're right. They should only change the way the crimson increases with intelligence.

      I think GF would gladly put the players' suggestions into practice in the Beta. Players have a way of seeing the game different from who doesn't play, and possibly it would only need adjustments to make the game more balanced for all races. After all, the Beta server is really for that, test!

    • Ponze wrote:

      Overall the things I want to be modified in priority:

      -Critial hit damages in PvP => at least +50% damage
      -Dragon chaman critical buff should be increased with INT
      -Bell/fan bonus should be 20%, not 10% this is useless
      -STR should NOT increase the chaman's skills' damages.
      -ALL BUFFS should be used without a party.
      good all but u say : ''' ALL BUFFS should be used without a party. '''

      my vote : NO

      yes im selfish.. sorry dude

    • trblackstar wrote:

      Ponze wrote:

      Overall the things I want to be modified in priority:

      -Critial hit damages in PvP => at least +50% damage
      -Dragon chaman critical buff should be increased with INT
      -Bell/fan bonus should be 20%, not 10% this is useless
      -STR should NOT increase the chaman's skills' damages.
      -ALL BUFFS should be used without a party.
      good all but u say : ''' ALL BUFFS should be used without a party. '''
      my vote : NO

      yes im selfish.. sorry dude
      Sorry I don't understand, you want to be obligated to make a party before you can buff someone?

    • Ponze wrote:

      trblackstar wrote:

      Ponze wrote:

      Overall the things I want to be modified in priority:

      -Critial hit damages in PvP => at least +50% damage
      -Dragon chaman critical buff should be increased with INT
      -Bell/fan bonus should be 20%, not 10% this is useless
      -STR should NOT increase the chaman's skills' damages.
      -ALL BUFFS should be used without a party.
      good all but u say : ''' ALL BUFFS should be used without a party. '''my vote : NO

      yes im selfish.. sorry dude
      Sorry I don't understand, you want to be obligated to make a party before you can buff someone?
      yes absolutely.. its good ..

    • trblackstar wrote:

      Ponze wrote:

      trblackstar wrote:

      Ponze wrote:

      Overall the things I want to be modified in priority:

      -Critial hit damages in PvP => at least +50% damage
      -Dragon chaman critical buff should be increased with INT
      -Bell/fan bonus should be 20%, not 10% this is useless
      -STR should NOT increase the chaman's skills' damages.
      -ALL BUFFS should be used without a party.
      good all but u say : ''' ALL BUFFS should be used without a party. '''my vote : NO
      yes im selfish.. sorry dude
      Sorry I don't understand, you want to be obligated to make a party before you can buff someone?
      yes absolutely.. its good ..
      I suppose when they call "party" it's a group, right?
      That way the shamans will be even more dependent on other characters ... Do you think at least what you say? Where the hell does that bring advantages?
      This isn't called selfishness, it's called being childish.

    • There is some days since i don't write anything in that post. I'm going to say what points I could accept if they remain like theyr are now:
      -Group party buff: I prefer buff person by person, but if you insist on it, I could accept it if you increase the range of the buffs (all mini-map or the same range as bravery cape)
      -Weapon specific: I prefer to mantain fans for pvp and bells for pve for both classes, but if you insist on doing this stupid change, increase the damage to 30% as the previous update.

      Things that I can't tolerate:
      -New Dragon Shooting system
      -% given by Dragon's Aid. It should be 25% (and 50% self) with 132 INT as the previous update. Increase the cooldown to 20-30 seconds if you want
      -Difference of magical attack value between bells and fans. I know the calculations are different, but 100 points of differente is too high
      -The new system of crits in PvP. x1,5 damage is the best option to solve it