Shaman dolls? Dragon's Aid?

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    • Shaman dolls? Dragon's Aid?

      Hi everyone,

      As the most of you may have noticed no one liked the changes on dragon's aid and blessing. Both main shamans and shaman dolls owner.

      Most of the classes (exept ninjas, Bm suras and shamans) are pretty good in pvm and have good skills to carry on during their life-game such as enchanted blade/ aura of sword and all the jazz. Nerverthless, every class (exept dragon shamans) has the possibility to increase their power in pvm a lot more with the support of the famous shaman doll.
      This nerf will result in making the shaman class the worst in PvM but also in PvP since it is their main skill. (it's like nerfing aura of sword or cure or enchanted blade)

      On the other hand, I think that this decision will make people less willing in growing up a Shaman doll just for 25% critics with full int and P. So that maybe there will be a major amount of people coming to REAL SHAMANS for help and so incentivate group playing.

      All in all, I propose to reduce dragon's aid % when using it on other characters and the standard % (or more since cooldowns of skills dmg have been increased) when used on self for two reasons:

      1 - Less shaman dolls, more group playing
      2 - Make shamans usable both in pvp and pvm

      About the cooldowns, just restore restore the old ones. I don't understand this choice, may someone explain it to me?

      Just to clarify, I'm an Archer :)


      ps: dolls owner don't blame me, let's just discuss with an objective point of view without worrying about our personal interests.

      The post was edited 6 times, last by Priore ().

    • I agree with you, but why is everyone saying cure is the main skill of the healer? I am a healer and I never use this skill since it makes me vulnerable to get hit. In 1v1 I don't really see the point of it, but I use it when there's more people involved in a fight and use horses which aren't allowed in 1v1.
      Sorry for the off-topic but to me cure just isn't that great to call it the main skill of the healer.

    • I quite agree on the fact that this patch will make people less willing in growing a Doll and will incentivate the group play, BUT 25% critical hits at P is a joke, even for mains.
      An acceptable nerf would have been around 40% with perfect equipment, maybe 45% when cast on self.

      About the cooldowns, i think that they could just be affordable if were set at 40s, consider that they are now group buffs, so one cast will buff every member of the party. Cast speed will ensure that this cooldown hit more or less every 30s, and in group healers shamans can give additional cast speed with swiftness. Is not that difficult reaching cast speed 200, which means casting every 20s if the cooldown were 40s

    • OmulCuier wrote:

      I agree with you, but why is everyone saying cure is the main skill of the healer? I am a healer and I never use this skill since it makes me vulnerable to get hit. In 1v1 I don't really see the point of it, but I use it when there's more people involved in a fight and use horses which aren't allowed in 1v1.
      Sorry for the off-topic but to me cure just isn't that great to call it the main skill of the healer.

      I read that they increased the amount of HP restored so I thought it to be more useful haha

      Angelz wrote:

      I quite agree on the fact that this patch will make people less willing in growing a Doll and will incentivate the group play, BUT 25% critical hits at P is a joke, even for mains.
      An acceptable nerf would have been around 40% with perfect equipment, maybe 45% when cast on self.

      About the cooldowns, i think that they could just be affordable if were set at 40s, consider that they are now group buffs, so one cast will buff every member of the party. Cast speed will ensure that this cooldown hit more or less every 30s, and in group healers shamans can give additional cast speed with swiftness. Is not that difficult reaching cast speed 200, which means casting every 20s if the cooldown were 40s
      For mains it would be 50% critical. 25-50 could work according to my idea but 40-50 won't change the situation

    • I can't follow your logic on how this change is gonna get more people using shaman as a main.

      First, you say that people will abandon using shaman as a second char because it's not worth it, then you sugest a change, the 25%-50% that pretty much leaves the shaman with the same % of Dragon's Aid when used on self.

      Bottom line, as a main the Dragon Shaman keeps exactly the same but just because it gets weaker for the other players more people will suddendly get the will to main one of the worst PVM classes in the game?

      Don't get me wrong, I think it's a good idea to adds perks to the buffs when used on self but even with your suggestion it's exactly the same stuff that's happening in the official. It won't urge people to main Shamans. I think the buffs should keep the same to value when used on others and buff even more the shamans, even if it's only in PVM. Because if a char isn't exactly good in PVM will, in most cases, be a secondary char leveled by a a class that is good in PVM.

    • miyako9 wrote:

      I can't follow your logic on how this change is gonna get more people using shaman as a main.

      First, you say that people will abandon using shaman as a second char because it's not worth it, then you sugest a change, the 25%-50% that pretty much leaves the shaman with the same % of Dragon's Aid when used on self. The 25%-50% doesn't leave the shaman with the same % of dragon's aid when used on self. I said that this should be 25% when used on other players, 50% when used on self.

      Bottom line, as a main the Dragon Shaman keeps exactly the same but just because it gets weaker for the other players more people will suddendly get the will to main one of the worst PVM classes in the game? I didn't say that I want this change to make people go for main shaman character. My suggestion was intended to reduce the use of dolls not promoting the use of shamans as main characters.

      Don't get me wrong, I think it's a good idea to adds perks to the buffs when used on self but even with your suggestion it's exactly the same stuff that's happening in the official. It won't urge people to main Shamans. I think the buffs should keep the same to value when used on others and buff even more the shamans, even if it's only in PVM. Because if a char isn't exactly good in PVM will, in most cases, be a secondary char leveled by a a class that is good in PVM. I disagree with you. If you like shaman, no matter what, you will go for it either it sucks or not. Adding perks to the buff will just reduce the struggle for these players.

    • Priore wrote:

      miyako9 wrote:

      I can't follow your logic on how this change is gonna get more people using shaman as a main.

      First, you say that people will abandon using shaman as a second char because it's not worth it, then you sugest a change, the 25%-50% that pretty much leaves the shaman with the same % of Dragon's Aid when used on self. The 25%-50% doesn't leave the shaman with the same % of dragon's aid when used on self. I said that this should be 25% when used on other players, 50% when used on self.


      And you didn't understand what I mean't. Actually, in the official servers, Dragon's Aid at P with 132 INT gives about 50%, so that change you are suggesting is merely saying, keep the same value to the buff when used on self.

      All in all, this change is only keeping the things as they are or making them worse. There isn't many reasons to make players main a Shaman, either Cure or Dragon, and there should be. And the changes that are taking place in the Beta aren't addressing that problem at all.

      At the moment Dragon Shaman are mostly used as a second char to help, we can agree that's not what was intended, but reducing the benefits of using Shaman's like this aren't helping the Shaman class, quite the contrary, but then again, that's just my opinion.

    • miyako9 wrote:

      Priore wrote:

      miyako9 wrote:

      I can't follow your logic on how this change is gonna get more people using shaman as a main.

      First, you say that people will abandon using shaman as a second char because it's not worth it, then you sugest a change, the 25%-50% that pretty much leaves the shaman with the same % of Dragon's Aid when used on self. The 25%-50% doesn't leave the shaman with the same % of dragon's aid when used on self. I said that this should be 25% when used on other players, 50% when used on self.

      And you didn't understand what I mean't. Actually, in the official servers, Dragon's Aid at P with 132 INT gives about 50%, so that change you are suggesting is merely saying, keep the same value to the buff when used on self.

      All in all, this change is only keeping the things as they are or making them worse. There isn't many reasons to make players main a Shaman, either Cure or Dragon, and there should be. And the changes that are taking place in the Beta aren't addressing that problem at all.

      At the moment Dragon Shaman are mostly used as a second char to help, we can agree that's not what was intended, but reducing the benefits of using Shaman's like this aren't helping the Shaman class, quite the contrary, but then again, that's just my opinion.
      Ah, I see. Yes, you are right, but I didn't care that much about the self buff. I was focusing on a way to reduce the use of shaman dolls.
      Do you think that this option won't change the situation? (25% buff on other characters)

      I thought that proposing 50+% dragon's aid used on self was too much since it's basically a support class, it will never be like a sura or warrior, but at least I would allow a decent pvm experience in solo. I don't think that they want to change that thing. If that's the case the most logical thing would be increase the cooldown a little more and increase critical hits also to 70% or similar. In this way critical hit would be a speciality of dragon shamans to make them more pleasing in pvm.

      EDIT: I added this thing to the thread in blue.

    • Priore wrote:

      Ah, I see. Yes, you are right, but I didn't care that much about the self buff. I was focusing on a way to reduce the use of shaman dolls.Do you think that this option won't change the situation? (25% buff on other characters)

      I thought that proposing 50+% dragon's aid used on self was too much since it's basically a support class, it will never be like a sura or warrior, but at least I would allow a decent pvm experience in solo. I don't think that they want to change that thing. If that's the case the most logical thing would be increase the cooldown a little more and increase critical hits also to 70% or similar. In this way critical hit would be a speciality of dragon shamans to make them more pleasing in pvm.

      EDIT: I added this thing to the thread in blue.

      It's relative.

      People who already have shaman dolls fully equiped and with P skills won't throw them out. Of course that will affect the creation of new shaman dolls, because people will think twice.

      But what is the main objective of reducing the number of shaman dolls? That's the class main usage, hell, it's a support class, what should it be doing? You take that "way" of using the class and you "kill" the class. It will just become another class that people level up with their main characters to do some PvP when they choose to.

    • I just wanted to make some good points to incentivate group gaming that should be fundamental in an MMORPG.
      This "way" of using the class won't kill anything. It will just create higher demands of true shaman users since there will be less "new" dolls. And don't forget that you don't need shamans just for Dragon's aid, there is blessing as well. Maybe 25% is too low, 70% too high, but I think that there a change MUST be done. Or we can just stick with it and playing offline.

      I'm sure someone else can come up with better ideas than mine.


      Anyway, I'm firm on the idea that onself buff should be higher than just a little as they did in this round.

    • Marce23 wrote:

      if they want to reduce "shaman doll" limit 1 game per ip. Implement other system of store and thats all...
      Maybe even offline shop but we are dreaming haha

      I think that this would be too much for who likes playing solo. I don't want to negate things to anyone, just make it fairer for every class and race.

      If I want to be a support I can't because I suck in pvm and no one needs me. So I'm forced to make a sura or warrior or lykan to support and exp MYSELF. Does it make sense to you all?