Don't ruin Dragon Shamans

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    • Don't ruin Dragon Shamans

      Hi everyone,

      I would like to discuss the changes regarding the dragon shaman. Is it supposed to be a balance?

      That's what they get

      - Less % of critical hits by dragon'd aid
      - 40-60% less damage in critical hits in pvp (this is where they are gonna be affected by the most since it s their main feature in PvP)
      - Bonus damage with bells that no one has
      - Lower skills dmg than other classses (and don't say that each character has to be different, because we have no way to win against other character in these conditions.)

      Here a clear example of dmg output made by CantBuffU:


      Display Spoiler
      youtube.com/watch?v=P-ta0tQdutY

      Here is some random pvp, sure they are higher then me and i do pvp with +9 pvp fan (i even try my dmg with my +5 bell and my +6 pvp fan with sura stone).

      My dmg vs that sura is embarrassing tbh 1200 with talisman that's with deamon fan+9 or +5 Dragon Ghost Bell (max for my lvl is +6 so not much i can improve with that weapon) matt alchemy and he was hitting me for 4k thru +8 from sapphire , +10 resistance from pet, clear diamond ofc and 60 sword.

      At the very end of that video i made some more dmg testing with 120 heal shaman and i had 97% magic resistance, +9 dragon shield, nemere with +12 shaman resitance, +8 ruby earings (+5 skill resistance) and matt alchemy, what i was missing vs shaman? +5 magic from bracelet and Oceanic Shoes to go full defense and maybe 100 helmet with 10 skill resistance and he was hitting me for 21k. Really?

      So yeah dragon shaman is sent back to stone edge, at least before antimagic stones we had the advantage of good hits damage combined with critical hits, now we are just doomed.



      Seriously? Is it supposed to be balanced?
      1.8k-2k of dmg skill when we get the same amount from normal attacks?
      2.5 of critical hit?
      healers deal 8-14k................................

      Now I have a question for Webzen. Do you test the changes you made on characters or you decide it randomly? Have you ever played Metin2?
      I only see a HUGE nerf.
      Dragon shamans used to rely on critical hits to deal high damage but now even their base dmg is low as f.

      THANK YOU.

      The post was edited 7 times, last by Priore ().

    • I really hope they dont touch the shaman.
      I have a dragon shaman for pvp and the fun thing about playing it, was:
      1.the cooldown reduction it has.
      2.love being able to play from a safe distance and harassing the opponent.
      3.the critical damage is something that makes us unique as we sacrifice spaces in our abilities to have this wonderful buff(and by "space" I mean that we have 3 damage abilities)

      so... please dont make me have to change to light for pvp (If light shaman are nerfed as well then bye)

      BTW: sorry for the bad english im from spain jeje

    • Only reason shaman's are a viable character in pvp are not their low cooldowns nor the buffs but these broken anti magic stones. Before they added these stones there were barely any sham's in pvp (and i can't remember them changing anything to the cooldowns or the buffs), but still people were fighting with buffs because this can simply be done by any dragon sham buffer that is not even participating in the fight. These stones are currently and will still be in the future the only reason why shaman will still be playable in pvp.
      On the beta there is currently a nerf in the effectiveniss of anti magic and a buff to sham's damage output (yes with a bell but hopefully they will be kind enough to give us a decent solution) and for me this is a step in the right direction, I hope eventually the shaman's damage output will be similar to that of all the other classes so we don't have to rely anymore on the broken anti magic stones so they can remove them completely from this game.
      And on dragon's aid: Personally I never liked relying on critical hits (not in this game or any other game for that matter) because I don't like wether or not I win a duel/fight depend on my luck. So tbh I wouldn't care if they nerfed/removed dragon's aid completely and buffed other skills or replaced it by a more reliable skill.

      And about these cooldown nerfs u speak of: Live->Beta, shooting cd 8->10, talis cd 7->9, Roar cd 20->12 (talis is still on a fairly low cd but the most important thing is that roar has a 8sec reduction and can be cast on range like summon lightning, not requiring me to walk into a dangerous position to deal my damage. If i would get to choose between the live functionality of the skills or from the beta I would 100% choose that of the beta). On top of that the lasting fire chance from shooting and roar is 3 times higher on the beta than on the live server, almost guaranteeing you wil put your enemy on fire by using these 2 skills. The only "real" nerfs imo are on the buff skills.
      And the only thing I would complain about is the fact that we will be forced to use bells instead of fans (fans are currently the only weapon being used as a pvp weapon resulting in the amount of decent/good pvp bells on the market being 0) <= THIS will be the biggest nerf to dragon shams and will possibly result in some of the higher lvl dragon shams, who spent lots of time and yang (and possibly euros) in making their weapon, quitting this game. And the statement I read earlier by a tester "u can still use fans they give higher MAV your equipement won't lose its value" is completely false. Anti magic is being nerfed and the comepnsation we get is increased damage WHILE USING A BELL this means we will have to use a bell to get the same damage output as before. While healers can just keep their weapon and see their damage increased by a huge amount while they already benefit from using the weapon with the higher MAV and don't have to deal with the inconvience of changing all their weapons when these changes go live. All this just doesn't seem really fair to me?

      The post was edited 1 time, last by sjasjomasan ().

    • sjasjomasan wrote:

      Only reason shaman's are a viable character in pvp are not their low cooldowns nor the buffs but these broken anti magic stones. Before they added these stones there were barely any sham's in pvp (and i can't remember them changing anything to the cooldowns or the buffs), but still people were fighting with buffs because this can simply be done by any dragon sham buffer that is not even participating in the fight. These stones are currently and will still be in the future the only reason why shaman will still be playable in pvp.
      On the beta there is currently a nerf in the effectiveniss of anti magic and a buff to sham's damage output (yes with a bell but hopefully they will be kind enough to give us a decent solution) and for me this is a step in the right direction, I hope eventually the shaman's damage output will be similar to that of all the other classes so we don't have to rely anymore on the broken anti magic stones so they can remove them completely from this game.
      And on dragon's aid: Personally I never liked relying on critical hits (not in this game or any other game for that matter) because I don't like wether or not I win a duel/fight depend on my luck. So tbh I wouldn't care if they nerfed/removed dragon's aid completely and buffed other skills or replaced it by a more reliable skill.

      And about these cooldown nerfs u speak of: Live->Beta, shooting cd 8->10, talis cd 7->9, Roar cd 20->12 (talis is still on a fairly low cd but the most important thing is that roar has a 8sec reduction and can be cast on range like summon lightning, not requiring me to walk into a dangerous position to deal my damage. If i would get to choose between the live functionality of the skills or from the beta I would 100% choose that of the beta). On top of that the lasting fire chance from shooting and roar is 3 times higher on the beta than on the live server, almost guaranteeing you wil put your enemy on fire by using these 2 skills. The only "real" nerfs imo are on the buff skills.
      And the only thing I would complain about is the fact that we will be forced to use bells instead of fans (fans are currently the only weapon being used as a pvp weapon resulting in the amount of decent/good pvp bells on the market being 0) <= THIS will be the biggest nerf to dragon shams and will possibly result in some of the higher lvl dragon shams, who spent lots of time and yang (and possibly euros) in making their weapon, quitting this game. And the statement I read earlier by a tester "u can still use fans they give higher MAV your equipement won't lose its value" is completely false. Anti magic is being nerfed and the comepnsation we get is increased damage WHILE USING A BELL this means we will have to use a bell to get the same damage output as before. While healers can just keep their weapon and see their damage increased by a huge amount while they already benefit from using the weapon with the higher MAV and don't have to deal with the inconvience of changing all their weapons when these changes go live. All this just doesn't seem really fair to me?
      I agree with you. I addedd you points in the thread in blue.

      But every character has its peculiarity. The peculiarity of shamans are critical hits and buffs. So you can't possibly remove them.

    • The ideea of a ranged dragon's roar is good but the best part of this skill was that you could unmount and use it without a target and the damage was instant;maybe if they change it so if you don't have selected a target to be like it was before :with the shaman in the middle of the skill , or at least give it a knockdown/back),the fact that flying talisman can hit now multiple targets (more than 2) is a good thing too.
      The increased cdr on flying talisman and shooting dragon with 2 sec won' t affect us that much how is the mp cost, we are a type of class that max out int,it is unusual that after 4 skills the mp bar to be halfed.
      The nerf that happens to the dragon's aid is too much for us (the solo mages) ,at least the old crit chanse to be the same when you give buff to yourself (35% with 120 int whould be enough though).
      The bonus damage when using a bell is uselees even for pvm ,when a mage decides to go and use a bell he will use it on a mount (please change that to a bonus damage from fans)
      The dragon shamans used to be a mid-range type fighter ,now it will be just ranged ,spamming the skills ,that won't do any damage and will eat the whole mpbar. In the future i ll need to carry more blue pots than a sura bm.
      The last things i want to say is that we should have the same increased damage from dex to all the skills (we are weak enough ,you cannot take 2 damaging skills and scale them with STR :( )

      The post was edited 3 times, last by corixil ().

    • I did some tests now and DEX still gives damage to both flying talisman and roar (hope it remains so),at lvl 80 with 136 int and stone the difference is like 100 damage to flying talisman(G1) 500 to shooting dragon (g6)and almost 1000 for roar (p) when maxing STR or DEX.
      Shooting dragon was my main tool when fighting WP Assassins (targeting a mob or another player when he was camuflaged),or getting non-agressive mobs out of the walls of dungeons.The new tactic for pvp now will be to spam roar and talisman from far away and knock them down with the shooting dragon when they get close and run (if you have enough damage nobody will be able to get close ,wich will end up to damage/range nerfs again)
      I don't have anything against the new roar but it was one of the few skills that didn't required a target ,wich made it one of the first skills to max out for pvp and pvm (and it looked cool too :) , in my opinion the best looking skill of this game )
      I know that the metin2 team won't let us down and come with an answer to combine all the good feedbacks , until then good luck :D !

    • Ponze wrote:

      Priore wrote:

      Ponze wrote:

      Dragon roar is now broken. Stronger than summon lightning.
      Ehm... From which planet?
      Range: roar > summonDamage: roar > summon
      Cooldown: No Idea
      Casting time: same I Guess?
      Additionnal effect: roar > summon

      Dragon shaman are now better than cure at long range.
      Yes but, fan in healing shamans > fan in dragon shamans. In addition, healing has lightning claw and lightning throw, while dragon shaman has flying taliman and dragon shooting (the new system of this skill is ugly).

    • Ponze wrote:

      Priore wrote:

      Ponze wrote:

      Dragon roar is now broken. Stronger than summon lightning.
      Ehm... From which planet?
      Range: roar > summonDamage: roar > summon
      Cooldown: No Idea
      Casting time: same I Guess?
      Additionnal effect: roar > summon

      Dragon shaman are now better than cure at long range.

      Well the damage should be higher but it's not. 7k of dragon's roar vs 14k of Summon
      Our dmg is reduced from long distances
      Burn vs Stun
      With the new system of dragon shooting we are forced to go melee so we aren't better than healer at long range unless we want to use just 2 skills.

    • @Priore

      Didn't know about the damage reduction with distance. That's strange my dragon friends didn't tell me this. And the damages should be higher with a bell... at least at lv 75-

      Ex: lv 75 bell has same MAV as lv 70 or lv 65 fan. But it's not true for higher levels.

      On live servers roar has more damages than summon lightning, so why not here? You should use full INT gear if you want to compare damages. Roar with 0 INT deals absolutly no damage even at perfect level.

      And shooting dragon has a knockback which is usefull to escape, a cure doesn't have any control to escape. Claw deals no damage.