Lycan DMG on Metins (Original vs Beta) + PvM Feedback Lycan

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    • I tested the nerfed crimson on the Beta server and its awful. I can't kill the lvl84boss with my lvl76 lycan after nerf. With my lvl76 lycan if I want to destroy the lvl85 metin stone I have to put on the crimson 3 times.... This is ridiculous.

      You are adjust the crimson to the lvl105+ characters with extreme gear... but test it as a low or mid level character with low budget... if I want to destroy a lvl85 metin stone I need put on my crimson 3times with P crimson with 140int? I worked my lycan almost 2years to be a P crimson and to be an int gear next to my real gear and... Now if I pull up a body warrion to lvl61-65 with P aura than I could destroy the metin stone 3times faster...

      The Lycan is no longer a Berserker class, it's just a Skin-modified warrior with low attack boost skill, and other attack skills that frequently miss.
      Sorry for my bad english.

    • The nerf about criomson soul is not healthy at all.If we talk for PVM you are putting lycans in a situation that they will be much worse than the body war. and weaponary suras . because crimson wolf now gives 350 ( btw 320 -350 not sure) AV when skill is P and duration is also so bad only 55 seconds so in beta it hits much lesser and u need to activate crimson 2-3 times when killing metins. In PVP lycans already only use skills.They cant hit space bar on ground because they are too slow and with crimson wolf nerf u are greatly nerfing the lycan's other skill values so how u expect from lycan to kill the opponents.

      My suggestion 1.make crimson wolf back to its original duration and make AV 500 with 90 int and remove the piercing hits and negative defence from it NERF other skills for pvp balancing dont ruin the class both in PVP and PVM.Your current nerf is not gonna really work like this.This is making the class beyond the shit.We dont want an OP class just make it avarage as u should make all classes

    • In my opinion chganging wolf's atack value is't fair.
      I agree that lycan can make the bigest dmg, but only using eq with INT.

      As lot o people say :
      - lycan is realy weak on the ground.
      - lycan have to change eq during switching on the skill.

      When body will be stronger than lycan (or equal), can make realy great work from ground and don't have to switch eq every 55s then who will play lycan ?

      Sura Wp jus't can't make the same DMG because has more DEF, 37% reduction opponent attack, and 12% hp absorption. That all makes WP immortal i PVM - and btw it's not fair that wp don't have to care about block, def etc.

      In pvp lycan right now ist weaker than body, after this reduction the difference will be much more visible.

      Lycan nerf has to be overthinked once again, because this changes can make the lycan "forgotten by the players" class.
      With every change lycan is weaker, maybe it's a good time to give him something in return?

    • its not our problem that you didnt claw defense in bosses, lycan has to be nerfed to a programmation error, the game its not all about razador and nemere, what about breaking stones, having powerful hits due to our slow and really strange hit system, and we lycans having weapons with less damage?
      why nerf the lycan? just to satisfy the crying babys that only uses the lykans on a beta server with perfect itens only.. Try to do that on a normal server using your own money.
      lycan needs to be a berserker char, or it stop to make sense to have a lycan.. its just a warrior half dog that fails skills and have to activate crimson and change to INT sets every 50 seconds...

    • ATV wrote:

      In my opinion chganging wolf's atack value is't fair.
      I agree that lycan can make the bigest dmg, but only using eq with INT.

      As lot o people say :
      - lycan is realy weak on the ground.
      - lycan have to change eq during switching on the skill.

      When body will be stronger than lycan (or equal), can make realy great work from ground and don't have to switch eq every 55s then who will play lycan ?

      Sura Wp jus't can't make the same DMG because has more DEF, 37% reduction opponent attack, and 12% hp absorption. That all makes WP immortal i PVM - and btw it's not fair that wp don't have to care about block, def etc.

      In pvp lycan right now ist weaker than body, after this reduction the difference will be much more visible.

      Lycan nerf has to be overthinked once again, because this changes can make the lycan "forgotten by the players" class.
      With every change lycan is weaker, maybe it's a good time to give him something in return?

      Agree you just have great point with this comment gameforge testers can't see this so sad they talking about weapon sura has 2-3k less damage than lycan lol with %37 reduction and %12 absorb +150-200 defance this ty gameforge for your freetime works professional testers

    • Regarding the damage, I think the nerf is fair. 15-20% may seem a lot, but it's not really a big deal. Lycan has still a faster PvE clearspeed than most of the other classes.

      The real big deal about Lycan, that brought to the nerf we have here, is that it was an outright broken character, especially in PvP, even if you had full specific defense against it (and that's also "our" fault, us guys who in the Lycan's beta whined about Lycan's pitiful damage, they listened to us, and they buffed it too much).

      Basically it was the best in two branches, like no other character was.
      Best damage output for PvE (beating even Body Warriors' speed), and top tier damage output in PvP.

      Even another "broken" character, Weapon Sura, has only one branch where it is flawless (and that is PvE, while in other branches it's just okay or quite good, since it has very low damage for GvG, and it's very good in Duels against buff-dependant characters, but nothing more), and not two.
      The nerf is there to slightly decrease the dangerousness of the character in PvP, and to make sure it's still decent in PvE but not the fastest character. That last one is Body Warrior's place. Otherwise, Body Warrior would be pretty mediocre everywhere but not the best in anything, it would literally suck. And since Body Warrior is probably one of the most used classes, it's not acceptable.


      I agree, though, that the cooldown of Crimson Soul is a serious issue. 55 seconds is ridicolously low.
      I think 150 would be way more fair.
      Or, also, around 90 seconds like Aura, but with the change of the status that buffs the skill's attack damage, from INT to DEX (or STR).
      That would be good also because INT is basically useless for Lycan if it weren't from Crimson Soul's dependence on it.
      That could also open room for putting an usefulness to STR for the Lycan, also considering the widely used Ebony Earrings (especially for PvE).
      Lv 95 Body Warrior (PPPPG), Lv 80 Weapon Sura (PPGG), Lv 70 Magic Sura (GGGG), Lv 49 Mental Warrior (PP)
      Sirio Server (IT)

    • meh wrote:

      We’re talking about Character/Skill Design. Stop making it about the Itemshop again.
      It doesn’t matter if we were to remove Itemshop Stuff as long as the Character Design itself is broken/in bad Shape.

      @LordBlack I don’t know what your Problem is, but it seems like it’s some bigger Issue that has nothing to do with me. This is a Forum, People do speak about their Opinions here, if you got a Problem with that – well then this is the wrong space for you to spend your free Time on.

      Regarding the Comment why I keep comparing Lycan to a Sura, that’s because Sura is one of the 3 most used Classes for PvE Content. Furthermore It is the Class which I have been playing for PvE, so it’s the Class I can tell the most about.

      In addition to that, I'd like you to not make this about my qualification. If my "Superior" would not be okay with what I am doing, I would stop - so you can be assured that what I am doing here is right :)
      in my opnion testers should not be players, because u have a favorite race, and subconscily you will not be imparcial, what testers and webzen and etc.. Are not seeing is that lycan is a chracter that really needs damage, it is advantage. Every characther should have one, shaman gives buffs and in pvp does damage from distance, black magic and archer ninja too, ninjas have really good skills and fast hits, warrior have good hits and good skills, sura weapon has defense , hp abs, dispell,good hits, lycan has weird hits skills that fail a lot and strange hits, he needs damage to have is on own advantage.
      Or lycan would be a warrior with skills that fail a lot and have shaman type hits and that have a self buff skill that demands switching to a INT set every 50 seconds ( annoying as hell) just to have 500 av just like an warrior.. Its sad...

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Apollykan ().

    • lykan

      Apollykan wrote:

      meh wrote:

      We’re talking about Character/Skill Design. Stop making it about the Itemshop again.
      It doesn’t matter if we were to remove Itemshop Stuff as long as the Character Design itself is broken/in bad Shape.

      @LordBlack I don’t know what your Problem is, but it seems like it’s some bigger Issue that has nothing to do with me. This is a Forum, People do speak about their Opinions here, if you got a Problem with that – well then this is the wrong space for you to spend your free Time on.

      Regarding the Comment why I keep comparing Lycan to a Sura, that’s because Sura is one of the 3 most used Classes for PvE Content. Furthermore It is the Class which I have been playing for PvE, so it’s the Class I can tell the most about.

      In addition to that, I'd like you to not make this about my qualification. If my "Superior" would not be okay with what I am doing, I would stop - so you can be assured that what I am doing here is right :)
      in my opnion testers should not be players, because u have a favorite race, and subconscily you will not be imparcial, what testers and webzen and etc.. Are not seeing is that lycan is a chracter that really needs damage, it is advantage. Every characther should have one, shaman gives buffs and in pvp does damage from distance, black magic and archer ninja too, ninjas have really good skills and fast hits, warrior have good hits and good skills, sura weapon has defense , hp abs, dispell,good hits, lycan has weird hits skills that fail a lot and strange hits, he needs damage to have is on own advantage.Or lycan would be a warrior with skills that fail a lot and have shaman type hits and that have a self buff skill that demands switching to a INT set every 50 seconds ( annoying as hell) just to have 500 av just like an warrior.. Its sad...
      yeah just like body warrior
      go and play mario you dont know anithing about body warrior
      and say too that we the body warriors cant use berserk on pvp why? just because the incresed dmg
      just play mario and leave metin2
      in my opininon they just need to put crimson to 1000 or 1500 so we will make all lykans chars :thumbdown:

    • What you still don't get is, that as I mentioned before - I or WE as a whole Team, are not the one's in charge for Changes.

      Somebody comes up to me and asks me if I could test Scenario "A". I start up Metin, test what I got asked for and report the outcome - that's it.

      So I’m very glad your Opinion doesn't matter regarding who should or should not be in the tester Team.

      This Discussion is far away from being objective on your Side, to me it’s just one of the 5 Races. I really have no Preference here. While active Players mostly want their own Class to be on top.

      Being a Player doesn’t mean you got a clue about everything or anything that is going on with/in Metin, so stop acting like you do.

      Furthermore I really would like to give a HUGE „THANK YOU“ to everybody who is out there on the Beta, testing Stuff, providing us with good written constructive Feedback & telling us their Opinion, and not sitting here smashing some words into his/her Keyboard to start a War in the Board like others do :P
      if you need help with anything, don't hesitate to ask me.

      Alles was ich im Umfang einer Diskussion schreibe, stellt lediglich meine persönliche Meinung dar.
      Solltet ihr Probleme im Spiel haben oder Hilfe benötigen könnt ihr euch jederzeit an mich wenden!

    • meh wrote:

      What you still don't get is, that as I mentioned before - I or WE as a whole Team, are not the one's in charge for Changes.

      Somebody comes up to me and asks me if I could test Scenario "A". I start up Metin, test what I got asked for and report the outcome - that's it.

      So I’m very glad your Opinion doesn't matter regarding who should or should not be in the tester Team.

      This Discussion is far away from being objective on your Side, to me it’s just one of the 5 Races. I really have no Preference here. While active Players mostly want their own Class to be on top.

      Being a Player doesn’t mean you got a clue about everything or anything that is going on with/in Metin, so stop acting like you do.

      Furthermore I really would like to give a HUGE „THANK YOU“ to everybody who is out there on the Beta, testing Stuff, providing us with good written constructive Feedback & telling us their Opinion, and not sitting here smashing some words into his/her Keyboard to start a War in the Board like others do :P
      not objective.. Because im a lykan player, but i have a berserker warrior and a wp sura for about 8 years, so.. I think my opnion should matter because i have used the three pvm principal chares for many years..

    • alien80 wrote:

      Apollykan wrote:

      meh wrote:

      We’re talking about Character/Skill Design. Stop making it about the Itemshop again.
      It doesn’t matter if we were to remove Itemshop Stuff as long as the Character Design itself is broken/in bad Shape.

      @LordBlack I don’t know what your Problem is, but it seems like it’s some bigger Issue that has nothing to do with me. This is a Forum, People do speak about their Opinions here, if you got a Problem with that – well then this is the wrong space for you to spend your free Time on.

      Regarding the Comment why I keep comparing Lycan to a Sura, that’s because Sura is one of the 3 most used Classes for PvE Content. Furthermore It is the Class which I have been playing for PvE, so it’s the Class I can tell the most about.

      In addition to that, I'd like you to not make this about my qualification. If my "Superior" would not be okay with what I am doing, I would stop - so you can be assured that what I am doing here is right :)
      in my opnion testers should not be players, because u have a favorite race, and subconscily you will not be imparcial, what testers and webzen and etc.. Are not seeing is that lycan is a chracter that really needs damage, it is advantage. Every characther should have one, shaman gives buffs and in pvp does damage from distance, black magic and archer ninja too, ninjas have really good skills and fast hits, warrior have good hits and good skills, sura weapon has defense , hp abs, dispell,good hits, lycan has weird hits skills that fail a lot and strange hits, he needs damage to have is on own advantage.Or lycan would be a warrior with skills that fail a lot and have shaman type hits and that have a self buff skill that demands switching to a INT set every 50 seconds ( annoying as hell) just to have 500 av just like an warrior.. Its sad...
      yeah just like body warriorgo and play mario you dont know anithing about body warrior
      and say too that we the body warriors cant use berserk on pvp why? just because the incresed dmg
      just play mario and leave metin2
      in my opininon they just need to put crimson to 1000 or 1500 so we will make all lykans chars :thumbdown:
      play mario? That funny cause i have been one of the best warrios of my server for several years... And my lycan is been lvl up for is own from lvl 1 to 93 so i got a pretty a good ideia how the both charactheres work, oh, and i got an weapon sura for pve too, for many years , so dont come say to me that i really dont know anything about metin2, I got 9 years of this game!!!!!
      And i didn t say anything about warrior berserk, warrios in general have good hits mental warriors too, lycan have strange hits

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Apollykan ().

    • pelosona666 wrote:

      Regarding the damage, I think the nerf is fair. 15-20% may seem a lot, but it's not really a big deal. Lycan has still a faster PvE clearspeed than most of the other classes.

      The real big deal about Lycan, that brought to the nerf we have here, is that it was an outright broken character, especially in PvP, even if you had full specific defense against it (and that's also "our" fault, us guys who in the Lycan's beta whined about Lycan's pitiful damage, they listened to us, and they buffed it too much).

      Basically it was the best in two branches, like no other character was.
      Best damage output for PvE (beating even Body Warriors' speed), and top tier damage output in PvP.

      Even another "broken" character, Weapon Sura, has only one branch where it is flawless (and that is PvE, while in other branches it's just okay or quite good, since it has very low damage for GvG, and it's very good in Duels against buff-dependant characters, but nothing more), and not two.
      The nerf is there to slightly decrease the dangerousness of the character in PvP, and to make sure it's still decent in PvE but not the fastest character. That last one is Body Warrior's place. Otherwise, Body Warrior would be pretty mediocre everywhere but not the best in anything, it would literally suck. And since Body Warrior is probably one of the most used classes, it's not acceptable.
      If you think this is fair, and gf thinks that too, Lycan will become (sorry to say it like this) the new archer ninja from the past years. A dead character, most people won't even consider to start playing it anymore on a serious level.

      This character is not broken, it just has a little more damage in pvm than body warrior and people are complaining (when lycan was released people considered to start playing with lycan because of this, you and every other player had the choice to do so as well). It has good damage in pvp as well (but broken? no), but it also has a shit design (the only skill you can reliably hit is wolf breath) as many players already told you in many previous posts. The ONLY advantage that lycans have now in pvm is that they have the highest dpm for metin/boss killing on HIGHER LEVEL (when you got full equipment). Most people DO NOT use this character on low level as a farmer, but a warrior/sura. If it really was so OP as you think it would be used much more on low level as well.
      This nerf will affect EVERY level and server in this game.

      This damage nerf is too much, everyone knows that mentals have more skill damage than lycans. Stating that it IS a broken character means that mentals are even more broken (and seriously I don't think so), and stating this "it was an outright broken character", only means that you just agree that it WAS a broken character, and that is/was not the fault of this character but of your lycan resistances problem again. When the lycan was released, and still months and years after it, some people were calling it OP. We are now on a situation where people are still complaining about this character (what is your problem). If you are playing on some dead servers like me where lycan resistances are very rare, I think you could complain but why would you? there is no pvp, so you don't need claw def XD . This damage nerf is not necassary as you might think, it's only needed for a little bit more equation to body warriors. And I really liked what iLow suggested, to remain the 585 av with 90 int, but lower the INT scalings...

      Everyone disagrees with a duration nerf already so I'm not gonna bother speaking about it anymore (I do not really see why this should be nerfed btw).

      In my opinion there are only few characters that need some buffs (like they are doing now with archers, and shaman's base damage).

      And about weapon suras, to be honnest I've rarely seen one in pvp, and if I did they weren't even full pvp yet, so it's hard to make a statement about it when most weapon suras are just going for the pvm and not for the pvp.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by jeroenado ().

    • jeroenado wrote:

      pelosona666 wrote:

      Regarding the damage, I think the nerf is fair. 15-20% may seem a lot, but it's not really a big deal. Lycan has still a faster PvE clearspeed than most of the other classes.

      The real big deal about Lycan, that brought to the nerf we have here, is that it was an outright broken character, especially in PvP, even if you had full specific defense against it (and that's also "our" fault, us guys who in the Lycan's beta whined about Lycan's pitiful damage, they listened to us, and they buffed it too much).

      Basically it was the best in two branches, like no other character was.
      Best damage output for PvE (beating even Body Warriors' speed), and top tier damage output in PvP.

      Even another "broken" character, Weapon Sura, has only one branch where it is flawless (and that is PvE, while in other branches it's just okay or quite good, since it has very low damage for GvG, and it's very good in Duels against buff-dependant characters, but nothing more), and not two.
      The nerf is there to slightly decrease the dangerousness of the character in PvP, and to make sure it's still decent in PvE but not the fastest character. That last one is Body Warrior's place. Otherwise, Body Warrior would be pretty mediocre everywhere but not the best in anything, it would literally suck. And since Body Warrior is probably one of the most used classes, it's not acceptable.
      If you think this is fair, and gf thinks that too, Lycan will become (sorry to say it like this) the new archer ninja from the past years. A dead character, most people won't even consider to start playing it anymore on a serious level.
      This character is not broken, it just has a little more damage in pvm than body warrior and people are complaining (when lycan was released people considered to start playing with lycan because of this, you and every other player had the choice to do so as well). It has good damage in pvp as well (but broken? no), but it also has a shit design (the only skill you can reliably hit is wolf breath) as many players already told you in many previous posts. The ONLY advantage that lycans have now in pvm is that they have the highest dpm for metin/boss killing on HIGHER LEVEL (when you got full equipment). Most people DO NOT use this character on low level as a farmer, but a warrior/sura. If it really was so OP as you think it would be used much more on low level as well.
      This nerf will affect EVERY level and server in this game.

      This damage nerf is too much, everyone knows that mentals have more skill damage than lycans. Stating that it IS a broken character means that mentals are even more broken (and seriously I don't think so), and stating this "it was an outright broken character", only means that you just agree that it WAS a broken character, and that is/was not the fault of this character but of your lycan resistances problem again. When the lycan was released, and still months and years after it, some people were calling it OP. We are now on a situation where people are still complaining about this character (what is your problem). If you are playing on some dead servers like me where lycan resistances are very rare, I think you could complain but why would you? there is no pvp, so you don't need claw def XD . This damage nerf is not necassary as you might think, it's only needed for a little bit more equation to body warriors. And I really liked what iLow suggested, to remain the 585 av with 90 int, but lower the INT scalings...

      Everyone disagrees with a duration nerf already so I'm not gonna bother speaking about it anymore (I do not really see why this should be nerfed btw).

      In my opinion there are only few characters that need some buffs (like they are doing now with archers, and shaman's base damage).

      And about weapon suras, to be honnest I've rarely seen one in pvp, and if I did they weren't even full pvp yet, so it's hard to make a statement about it when most weapon suras are just going for the pvm and not for the pvp.
      this is true that only skills that we really use that almost 100% hits it the wolf breath , wolf pouce and claw fails really randomily, and retail, only hits the oponent is really close, in every game we have a chracter that fails a lot of skills but has a more damage, this should be lycan.. it used to be mental warrior but, their skills are easier to hit than lycans, and their damage is stiil superior, touching the wp sura subject, one of the best pvp players in my country is a wp sura, the portuguese know who i am talking about, they have a lot of miss in pvp strong hits skills easy to hit and dispell.

    • For me it feels like meh doesn't like Lycans very much ^^

      @meh As you can see there are mostly people who are and argue against the nerf !
      So please notice it and tell it your next higher instance...if you can't do something for us ...Tell us how we can do sth against the nerf! Because we don't like it and think it is not that fair compared to for example the NON-ONE-HIT-BUG of the Body Warrior! Maybe you should fix this first! Because the Lycan also needs more AW to compensate such a Bugg!
      Think about my and our words and "help" us!
      Thank you very much!

    • zRamses wrote:

      For me it feels like meh doesn't like Lycans very much ^^

      @meh As you can see there are mostly people who are and argue against the nerf !
      So please notice it and tell it your next higher instance...if you can't do something for us ...Tell us how we can do sth against the nerf! Because we don't like it and think it is not that fair compared to for example the NON-ONE-HIT-BUG of the Body Warrior! Maybe you should fix this first! Because the Lycan also needs more AW to compensate such a Bugg!
      Think about my and our words and "help" us!
      Thank you very much!
      i am not saying that @meh hates lycan or that he doesnt know how to play, am i only saying that they need to having several tests in different parts of the game and not just breaking metin stones. oand not just to compare lycans damage to warrior and wp sura because they have some really good advantages over lycan, i have a lycan a warrior and wp sura, and a really know those 3, and lycan needs a bit more damage to compensate the some flaws over those 2, the only change that i will do, is reducing the warrior berserk damage intake, and too wp suras is the damage of spiral, abd raise it a bit, as for lycans reduce piercing, and correct the 2x damage to wolf breath, the other chraxter are weaker that those 3 in pvm but in pvp, they are better