[Archer] Feedback skills & impact of Character Status to the skills

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    • [Archer] Feedback skills & impact of Character Status to the skills

      Hi together,

      i made some tests to find out the impact of the character status to the different skills. Also i wanted to knew which is probably the best skilling in the future. First i want to tell you something about my testing conditions. I play a level 115 archer, i chose attack value at 92/94 biologic quests. I wear at all tests no equipment or costumes, the damage numbers are the shown at the skills. For the skill Feather Walk i used a Crow Stell Bow+0 with 18% avg and -6% skill damage at level 100 dragon shamane (90 biologic quest completed, 10% arrow ressistance).

      This are my tests results, below i try sum up them.



      Poison Arrow:
      The biggest impact has DEX, suprising was the point that INT and STR give nearly the same boost. That the chance of poisoning is affected by DEX is okay in my point of view. I think the skill is fine now.

      Fire Arrow:
      I like that the skill has a lasting fire effect now. But i still miss a information for how long the opponent will have this effect. Even STR and INT increase the damage of Fire Arrow slightly.

      Repetitive Shot:
      Knockback works right now and i really like this effect, helps to escape from opponent. Interesting is the big impact of INT, STR doesn't increase the damage such strong.

      Spark:
      Interesting is the fact, that INT increases the duration of stealth after hitting the opponent. I'm not sure if it's intended, that stealth is only possible after you hitted a enemy. Also in skill description the stealth effect is missing and i really like to have a timer which show how long the duration of stealth is. As usual INT and STR increase the damage equal.

      Arrow Shower:
      The only skill where INT has no impact to the damage. A bit surprising for me was the fact, that only with DEX you can "activate" the slow effect, with INT you can increase the duration of this. Idea of slowing is really nice, but i'm not sure if it's right that you need to skill INT & DEX to see this effect.

      Feather Walk:
      For me the most interesting skill, because on live servers it's really useless. Little bombs which making damage are a nice idea, but a skill duration of 15s is to less. I suggest a duration of 30s and that every 2s a bomb appears. Normally a duel lasts longer than those 15s. The damage of this skill can be decreased by arrow resistance and can't be increased by strong against human or wearing a weapon with higher attack value. If the duration is changed, the skill should be okay as it is now.

      summary:
      The best skilling of character status will be VIT 16 INT 90 STR 90 DEX 90 in the future. INT has nearly the same effect to the damage numbers than STR. That's not a slight change, that's a big change! At the one hand i like the idea to affect the skills by INT, but on the other one you need in the future INT/DEX/STR equipment. At the moment no archer has intended INT at his equipment, for the future equipment needs to be changed. And that's the point i really dislike. I don't want to change my equipment for real money because of that. I think that was enough from my point of view.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Bruce ().

    • So my second test case. I compared my damage between live and beta server to a level 1 blanc character. As weapon i used a blanc Long Bow+2, no alchemy, no pets and no other equip or push items were equiped. As additional information i have to say, Fire Arrow Boost is at perfect level. Also i changed my 92/94 biologic reward from 2x HP to 2x attack value. For the tests on live server i used a blue dew (+120aw) to compare this, so the difference between live and beta server should be even bigger than my results show.

      Poison ArrowFire ArrowRepetitive ShotSparkArrow ShowerFeather Walk
      Live Server290043003500320022000
      Beta Server38004700350041002900950
      Difference+900+4000+900+700+950


      Live Server = 90 VIT 16 INT 90 STR 90 DEX
      Beta Server = 16 VIT 90 INT 90 STR 90 DEX

      Interesting is the skill Repetitive Shot, it should be increased by INT, but there's no difference between live and beta server. For the other skills i can summon up, that archers on beta server with INT skilling do more damage than on live server. I like more damage because i'm playing an archer, but to be honest i'm thinking the game and even the archer hasn't a problem that there's to less damage.

    • You are doing a very good test on the ninja archer. The only thing I think that using that build of 90 int 90 dex 90 str and 16 vit is too extreme and I do not know if the loss of hp and defense is worth so much to get more damage.
      It would be good if you could try something more mixed half style in vit and half in int to not lose so much hp and not so much damage. Since in the case of pvp is also important to endure in addition to having much damage. Already in the pvm as the ninja archer is used little but has its utility and there if it would be convenient to maximize its damage for example against a jotun or something like that.
      This is what I think, I have never had an archer in my hands but I have seen many people with them. Go on with the tests and see how they work.
      The only thing I think is that feather walk should last a lot longer and it would be an effective skill, like for example 45segs or 60 seconds maximum and that every 2 seconds you hit. I call the attention that this skill there is no way to strengthen it with weapons or anything apparently since with the current use it should be good to strengthen it with some stats besides int, such as with dex.
      JonyBelmont, Body Warrior lv112. Metin2.es Server: Nemesis.

    • I tested with 16 VIT 90 DEX 90 STR 90 INT and it does not worth it. The gain in damage is so small that doesn't worth loosing so much pv. You'll end up with 25k pv and that only if playing with ebony or garnet earings and have some good alchemy to add extra PV. That PV is too little for the damages that are inflicted today. There are alot of chars that give you more than 30k damage in general fights (not talking about 1 vs 1 combat where you migh have better defence agains aa certain class).

      So yes, INT give something extra but mostly just increases the duration of invizibility with Spark...the actual damage with maxed out INT is low.

      Another thing, you said that the knockback effect is good and allows you to escape ...well that's only partial true, I've made some tests and please try to evade from an Auto Atack espcially from a Body Warrior...no chance. You'll throw him away but he'll "drag" you as soon as you walk away or try to run. There's no effective way to escape from that, not even while you're invisible. That is a bugged behavior of the Auto Attack and most of us have said it should be solved cause it's giving advantages to certain classes only (not every class can play with Auto...try an archer for ex and see). We were never been heard or we have benn always told that "now it's not a priority", "this is not the point of the testing" and so on.

      Yes, maybe this is not the point of this testing but you said you want to ballance things in combat...then FIX first the damn BUG's that are haunting us for years before trying to introduce more things that will eventually make the differences bigger. These bugs are here for years and only give advantages for some classes...and even worse, NOBODY is sanctioned for using them. And according to the rules bug abusing IS punished...yeah, tell me about that :)

    • Thanks for your feedback @Blesenth and ideas for further tests.



      Again i have tested several things and options. My first test was to check the difference between the different character status. I compared the shown numbers at character page. As expected i got the highest values at HP and defence with 90VIT 16INT skilling. The difference with no equipment is 2960 HP and 60 defence with equipment, alchemy and pets the difference is even bigger: 4209 HP and 64 defence. In my eyes are the differences at HP and defence is with the different skilling really big even in pve you will notice this very strong.

      Second test was in Nemere's Watchtower at Level 8, there you need a ninja to get the Frostflower Key. For my test i used the monster Frost Golem, i compared the hit damage i got from the monster. As you can see i got even with the 90 VIT skilling a lot of damage, with INT skilling it's getting even worse. As main problem i figured out the missing defence, 739 defence is still not a lot. I have to notice that my ruby in alchemy has no defence, so i tested with a 200 deff dew (equal to brilliant ruby). The damage numbers are then better, but still the damage numbers are high.

      Short sum up from me, if you are killing any bosses like Jotun, Nemere, ... the INT skilling will be the best, but for monster groups without a horse or mount the INT skilling is really hard. Even with VIT skilling you will get problems. Of course i know that archer isn't a good class for pve, but it's really frustrating to have no skills and even with really good pve equipment no chance to kill a bigger group of monsters. I do not want that archers are as good as lycan, body warrior or weapon sura but please think about the point with INT skilling. With VIT skilling you can do pve, but with INT skilling you really need a very good equipment to balance the missing effect of the VIT points. I do not like the actual version, i have good equipment, but there are a lot of players who have not it. So a lot of archers will get more strugles than they have now. Not really motivating at all to play this character further.

      If i have time the next days i will make some videos to show the different damage belong to the skillings and to compare them to the live version.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Bruce ().

    • Rapier wrote:

      I tested with 16 VIT 90 DEX 90 STR 90 INT and it does not worth it. The gain in damage is so small that doesn't worth loosing so much pv. You'll end up with 25k pv and that only if playing with ebony or garnet earings and have some good alchemy to add extra PV. That PV is too little for the damages that are inflicted today. There are alot of chars that give you more than 30k damage in general fights (not talking about 1 vs 1 combat where you migh have better defence agains aa certain class).

      So yes, INT give something extra but mostly just increases the duration of invizibility with Spark...the actual damage with maxed out INT is low.
      Yes but it is silly nonetheless not to enjoy the secondary bonuses brought by our skills.
      So to take advantage of the secondary bonuses without losing too much of life one could indeed make a mixe however it will be necessary to choose to be 40 inteligence and the rest in vitality is 60 integrity and the rest in vitality because the time of invisibility increases of 1 seconds all 20 points (by landing) so with 40 int on 3 seconds and with 60 we have 4 seconds, and if we are between the two it will remain 3 seconds.

    • Strijelac wrote:

      So to take advantage of the secondary bonuses without losing too much of life one could indeed make a mixe however it will be necessary to choose to be 40 inteligence and the rest in vitality is 60 integrity and the rest in vitality because the time of invisibility increases of 1 seconds all 20 points (by landing) so with 40 int on 3 seconds and with 60 we have 4 seconds, and if we are between the two it will remain 3 seconds.

      I understand your point, but i still dislike the idea that an archer has to decide which part of the game (pve/pvp) he is playing. Because this decides about the skilling. The biggest disandvantages of this beta version is the pve part of the game. To have a chance in pve you need the VIT skilling, that causes a big loss of damage in pvp. Consequences of this will be that no archer is playing pve anymore, in my eyes a really bad future...

      A solution could be to remove the damage increase which is caused by INT or even make it smaller. That duration of the various "effects" like stealth should be still increased by INT. Of course i know a INT skilling would be less interesting then for pvp, but to increase the skill durations still important. A player who is playing pve & pvp could choose a VIT skilling without having "no chance" at pvp.

    • Why, I find it silly, of all one will not hide it an archer pve does not exist apart for the xp. If the int does not increase the damage it will serve just to boost the side effects which will increase even more the problem! (If we want the side effects we have to put int except that it does not even increase the damage and that in addition we lose defense and vitality), besides we must not forget that bloodstains it exists so no choice is irreversible.

    • Your spoiler made me laugh ^^ no it's just an illusion to take a Ninja so much to take an assassin, he can do all that an archer does in addition to being able to use his skills, for me an archer pve exists only in the case of the xp or it must have an excellent stuff to get there. An archer has of course the right to make instances but he will never be wanted for that.

    • Strijelac wrote:

      Your spoiler made me laugh ^^ no it's just an illusion to take a Ninja so much to take an assassin, he can do all that an archer does in addition to being able to use his skills, for me an archer pve exists only in the case of the xp or it must have an excellent stuff to get there. An archer has of course the right to make instances but he will never be wanted for that.
      And that was "again" something that was decided over our heads and nobody asked. I play for about 9 years and I remember a time when the archers were the ONLY chars that could defeat the Ice Witch ALONE. Also it was a time when the archer was the character that inflicted the biggest damage to bosses while using polymorf marble and it was always taken into consideration in a group. That was due to the high atack value of the bow.
      Guess what...someoby though to nerf it and render archers useless in pve so introduced arrow defence to the bosses (much more compared to other clases defence), later on appeared the aura and other bugs tyhat increased the damage for other classes and the archer remained forgotten.

    • Well, I'm a PvE-loving archer and most of your comments are correct. It's challenging, but it's clear I'll never be as effective as a true physical class would be.

      When it comes to using polymorph marbles, Archers are actually equal to Daggers - who can, in turn, be much more effective in mass PvE (since, when un-transformed, they can use all of their skills with daggers and kill much more easily mobs).

      I levelled up by killing Setaous in what is generally thought to be the hardest room of the Grotto of Exile 2... by wearing a bow and transforming. It's kinda fun landing 30k on mobs. :D However, I cannot possibly do the same thing in the Enchanted Forest, as En-Tai monsters attacks are tremendous in comparison to Setaous'.

      Anyway, bosses do actually have several specific resistances, archers aren't the only unlucky ones. Still, it'd actually be nice to improve polymorphing in order to differentiate classes, because it's clear that on the PvE side, Archers are definitely at a disadvantage.

    • I preffered to write here as the thread's title is general.

      I might ask which is the chance for "fire damage" of the Fire Arrow? Don't know how it was implemented but the chances are EXTREMELY low.

      I was in a fight with a Dragon Shaman and I was not able to get fire damage NOT EVEN A SINGLE TIME, while the Shaman was able to do that with almost EVERY skill. We're both lvl 120 chars, I don't think it is normal. It is useless to add permanent fire damage to a skill if the chance for dealing it is so low. Not even I was not able to deal permanent fire damage to the Shamane but in the fight were some other characters even of lower level: 112 lvl warrior, 105 lvl Lycan, 105 Weaponry Sura....I could not deal permanent fire damage on ANY of them. How's that?

      And please don't come and say that Shaman "should" have a higher rate and bla bla bla...Nowhere is written that another class "should" have anything. It is a simple matter of decision. But if you decide to introduce this to the archer, make it work too. What are the chances to get fire damage with Fire Arrow?

      I was also wearing one of the new Fire Pendants and the Shaman was not wearing anything so just theoretically I should have better resistance agains fire (if that's the bonus that a Fire Pendant gives).

    • Rapier wrote:

      I preffered to write here as the thread's title is general.

      I might ask which is the chance for "fire damage" of the Fire Arrow? Don't know how it was implemented but the chances are EXTREMELY low.

      I was in a fight with a Dragon Shaman and I was not able to get fire damage NOT EVEN A SINGLE TIME, while the Shaman was able to do that with almost EVERY skill. We're both lvl 120 chars, I don't think it is normal. It is useless to add permanent fire damage to a skill if the chance for dealing it is so low. Not even I was not able to deal permanent fire damage to the Shamane but in the fight were some other characters even of lower level: 112 lvl warrior, 105 lvl Lycan, 105 Weaponry Sura....I could not deal permanent fire damage on ANY of them. How's that?

      And please don't come and say that Shaman "should" have a higher rate and bla bla bla...Nowhere is written that another class "should" have anything. It is a simple matter of decision. But if you decide to introduce this to the archer, make it work too. What are the chances to get fire damage with Fire Arrow?

      I was also wearing one of the new Fire Pendants and the Shaman was not wearing anything so just theoretically I should have better resistance agains fire (if that's the bonus that a Fire Pendant gives). EDIT: Forget this, I saw today it's not about resistance but "strong against"
      UP...no answer? @unforgiven

      Nobody can tell what's the chance of getting that "lasting fire effect" on Fire Arrow? I thought that if it's called FIRE arrow it should have some chance similar to poisoning of POISON arrow. That should be the logical approach. As I see the chance is not even 50%.

    • unforgiven wrote:

      Can you tell me what were your stats?
      I have some points from VIT placed in INT to test the effect. Please find attached the Character stats page. If you want to see a certain value in the details page, please let me know. Also please note that I was fighting/testing in another kingdom not in mine so kingdom bonus applied for the opponents.

      EDIT: I've checked on the wiki (I know that maybe is not the most accurate source as it is based on players but still) and I saw that none of the Shamane skills that have lasting fire damage contains values for the chance. So it is not a "base" feature of that skill, it is a side effect, like the one for the Fire Arrow should be. So I'm wondering why some skills for a certain char have such a high chance and some others have such low chance. What's the point in adding it to a skill if it's not working? Or implement it as it is poison for Poison Arrow with a high chance that could increase even more with DEX.
      Images

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      The post was edited 3 times, last by Rapier ().

    • OK. So I've tested some more, first time I must've been tired or blind as I couldn't see the % chance for lasting fire on the skill (thank you @helena).

      After tests I can say the chance is increasing with INT. It is about 35% with 1 INT and goes up to 80% with full int. Adding alchemy on top makes it 84% (4% gained from 14 INT on Diamond). Schaman has 90%+ so that's why I was allways put on fire while I couldn't do the same. At fight time I had no INT or only partially so the chance for me was like 50-70% at max compared with 90%+ for Schamane. Still with 60-70% I should have been able to deal fire damage more often...dunno why not was happening.

      I also read that Schaman got higher chance of lasting fire as part of the ballancing so even if I don't like it so much...it's understandable. They got it before, now they have a bigger chance... We (ninjas) didn't have it at all now we got it...fair enough :)

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Rapier ().