Is there an error with Ninja's atk-value calculations?

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    • Is there an error with Ninja's atk-value calculations?

      Greetings,

      to this day, there have been many updates, one of which dealing with the calculation of the basic atk-Value of Shamans and Ninjas. In particular:

      unforgiven wrote:

      Ninja:

      Attack damage will increase more with Dexterity (++) than Strength (+)
      I thought that a "+" meant a single point on the atk-value, while a "++" meant two full points.

      For example, if your basic atk-damage (the one in the character sheet!) is 500, by wearing an item providing +12 DEX you'd expect and outcome of +24 (=524); while, wearing an item which gives +12 STR would just give you 12points (=512).

      Well, it doesn't work this way.

      Ninjas actually get +1.75 by DEX and only +0.25 by STR. I don't know if it's intended this way, but what really bugs me, is that I made a test with another class (Lycan) who gets:

      ++ from DEX
      + from VIT

      and calculations worked perfectly as expected: +24 from DEX and +12 from VIT.

      -

      Now that I think of it, on my official server (where the situation is still reversed) I noticed DEX being almost useless, on my Ninja. I think it's not fair, as +12stat bonuses are not really easy to find on items - I know you're thinking it's just a matter of fractions, but still, increasing overall atk-Value is really important to a Ninja, in order to deal a more significant damage when using polymorph marbles.

      Please, let me know something about it. @unforgiven @Aworan

      ===

      EDIT: it's actually like this for Shamans as well, even if contributions are slightly different (and the involved stats are Str/Int on the official server, Int/Dex on the beta).

      The post was edited 1 time, last by BlueShade ().

    • That would mean that after this change, wearing a pair of Garnet Earrings as a ninja, wil give you even more damage now compared to Ebony Earrings. What I mean is that even if currently on live server Garnet gives ninjas better damage, now with the stats change will give even more right? Since importance of DEX increases compared to STR..or at least this is how it should be

    • for the archer, I compared the VA of my spells with the same character at the same level with the same statistics without ANY item equipped, and apart from for fire arrow that does not move almost anyway, all the other skills have significant increases (90 dex 90 str 90 vit 1 int) of the order of 100 to 600 depending on the competencies.

    • Rapier wrote:

      That would mean that after this change, wearing a pair of Garnet Earrings as a ninja, wil give you even more damage now compared to Ebony Earrings. What I mean is that even if currently on live server Garnet gives ninjas better damage, now with the stats change will give even more right? Since importance of DEX increases compared to STR..or at least this is how it should be
      No, it's not as you said.

      Basically, on live servers, the effectiveness of STR and DEX is inverted. On live servers STR is the main status for Ninjas, while DEX is secondary - it has been like this for years, even if everyone thought that DEX was to be maxed out first.

      So, on live servers, you get more attack damage when wearing Soul Crystals Earrings (STR) and less attack damage when wearing Crystal Earrings (DEX).

      With the update of this beta, the situation will be reverted, so you are definitely NOT "getting even more", you are just forced to switch all of your STR items to DEX ones, in order to retain the same effectiveness - otherwise, you'll get worse results.

      =

      But that's NOT the whole point of my topic.

      The point is that the secondary attribute (DEX on live servers, STR on the beta) is really poor, as I said above, for Ninjas and Shamans.

      A Lycan (who also has self-buff skills, by the way) gets FULL benefit from this bonus: the main stat gives them a double amount of points. For instance:

      > wearing +12DEX gets +24points on his atkValue;
      > the same wolf, wearing +12VIT, gets +12points on his atk value.

      Why do other classes get full benefit from stat bonus and Ninjas, Shamans don't? It's not really balanced at all, I'd say!


      Strijelac wrote:

      for the archer, I compared the VA of my spells with the same character at the same level with the same statistics without ANY item equipped, and apart from for fire arrow that does not move almost anyway, all the other skills have significant increases (90 dex 90 str 90 vit 1 int) of the order of 100 to 600 depending on the competencies.
      @Strijelac: you are considering the effects of DEX and STR on the theoretical damage of every single skill - and that's okay. We know that every skill is somewhat influenced by the stats.

      However, that's not the point of this topic: I'm just talking about the BASIC attack damage, the one in the character sheet (and that's actually the damage you have to look at, when it comes to PvE / using polymorph marbles).

      The post was edited 4 times, last by BlueShade ().

    • @BlueShade I never used Soul Cristal Earrings but I used alot Ebony Earrings and Garnet Earrings. I was not the only one who tested and the results showed that Garnet give equal damage with Ebony Earings having 5 HalfHuman bonus on them. The tests showed that the damage was above the one with clean Ebony Earings and les than Ebony Earings having 10 Half Human bonus. Nothing is inverted on live server...test with a shield having 12 DEX and 12 STR, you'll see that the one with DEX gives you more damage per skill (I am talking about skill damage here not hit damage).

      And again, I don't make calculations based on the stats or skill values cause I found them allways confusing. There are skills that don't increase or show less values compared to the inflicted damage and as I'm based on full atack (full HH), is not relevant to see 9760 damage for a skill (in the skill bar) when I inflict 15k damage in a combat situation for ex. What I do is I make tests with my current gear and compare the damage inflicted using different earrings. And always I got more damage with Garnet than with Ebony...and even more damage wearing Sapphire Earings if that counts (but those don't have PV).

      If you want, we can make tests, on beta I have the Garnet Earrings and Sapphire Earrings and we can compare with Ebony or Soul Cristal ones

      P.S. I've noticed also that you said you're more on the PvE side and I also saw that you compare the damage while you're using polymorph marble. In that particular case the STR gives more attack because STR influences the HIT and DEX influences the SKILL. It would be nice (or normal dunno) to have DEX increasing both but was never like this. For lycan DEX increases both skill and hit damage? Cause if it is like this, it should be for ninja too. DEX is the primary stat for a ninja and theoretically it should increase both skill and hit...but it doesn't.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Rapier ().

    • I guess I'm not expressing myself very well - sorry, but I'm not a native english speaker.

      First of all, consider that my whole speech is about plain damage - that is to say, the damage of punches, dagger hits, single arrow hits and (obviously) the damage you do with polymorph marbles. I'm not considering at all skills, here.

      Anyway:

      Rapier wrote:

      I never used Soul Cristal Earrings but I used alot Ebony Earrings and Garnet Earrings.
      I mentioned Crystal Soul Earrings because they are the only high level earrings which provide STR without providing Avg damage as well.
      A comparison between Garnets and Emeralds would be uneven, because Emeralds ALSO give Avg damage.



      Rapier wrote:

      Nothing is inverted on live server...
      It is, it's one of the purposes of this Beta. Here on the Beta, DEX is providing more atk value than STR. However, on the official servers (UK, Italian, German...) where the 17.5 hasn't been updated yet, things works the opposite way: Ninjas get more basic attack damage by using STR rather than DEX.

      You may try it yourself.


      Rapier wrote:

      I've noticed also that you said you're more on the PvE side and I also saw that you compare the damage while you're using polymorph marble. In that particular case the STR gives more attack because STR influences the HIT and DEX influences the SKILL.
      Well, that's not entirely true. It is true that some skills are influenced by STR and other by DEX (and thankfully, with this Beta they declared which stat influences a certain skill, that has been a really good idea).
      But we are talking of plain damage, here, as I said: and plain damage is higher if you boost basic attack damage. On official communities, Ninja's basic attack damage is much more influenced by STR, rather than DEX.
      Now, with the update on the Beta, Garnet Earrings are supposed to be more effective than Emerald ones - in polymorphing as well.


      Rapier wrote:

      If you want, we can make tests, on beta I have the Garnet Earrings and Sapphire Earrings and we can compare with Ebony or Soul Cristal ones
      I'd be glad to do some testings, for sure! :)

    • It's all more clear to me as you've specified the HIT thing. We were talking about different things...I was talking and testing about SKILL damage cause I'm exclusively PvP and interested more in skills and you talked about HIT that you get with daggers/arrows or polymorf marble. In this case yes, you're totally right, STR give more attack value and damage on live servers compared to DEX. Though, I couldn't see an increase in damage per hit on beta, even if DEX is considered first.

      But that will be theoretically better. I am using Garnet cause it's increasing skill damage. If that will increase also hit damage will be even better.