[Archer] Long skill animation

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    • [Archer] Long skill animation

      It was discussed in several topics, especially in conjunction with the Repetitive Shot but it was forgotten afterwards as other more important issues were raised. It was said that all archer skills have very long animations compared to attack skills from other chars and I would like to bring back attention to this topic. Mainly it is about the Fire Arrow, Poison Arrow and Repetitive Shot. The main issue is that with most skills from other chars, for ex Schamans, damage is inflicted almost instantly regardless of the skill animation while for ninja the damage occurs after the animation is finished.

      Most of the time, during battle, the skill is interrupted while the animation is ongoing and no damage is done. There are some skills from other chars like the Rolling Dagger or Dark Sphere that have long animations but those skills cannot be interrupted and the player deal damage. The worst thing is that while you cast ANY skill (except Spark), you're also a "sitting duck" and in most cases you get caught or killed because of that

      I understand that the skill should not be "instant", but you should consider reducing the animation time at least for Fire Arrow and Poison Arrow. With the introduction of knockback effect for Repetitive Shot, the long animation is somewhat ballanced due to the knockback effect (other enemies can get you meanwhile tho), but the other skills have too long animations (3 secs or so). Please consider reducing this time a little bit.

    • Well, I somewhat agree with you - still, there are some points to consider. I'm talking against my own interest here, by the way. :P

      Your observation about Repetive Shot's new knock-down effect is right - I'm quite sure they intended is as a "counter measure" to justify its long casting time.

      (I'm actually not really happy with the solution they came up with - since I don't really like the idea of "arrows that knock the opponent down". Actually, dividing the damage by 9 and giving a chance to EVERY arrow to be piercing/critical - or rather, adding a low piercing hit percentage to the whole damage, might have been a more logical answer - but Metin2 lacks logic, as we already know :D
      By the way, while it may be useful in 1 vs 1, it still will noticeably expose the archer to other enemies in GvG, so it does not solve the problem at all).

      So, all in all, let's say they tried to find a way to adjust it.

      The problem with the other skills is still there: however, they loaded them with side-effects and moreover, significantly lowered the cooldowns.

      They actually keep into putting patches on the holes over and over, but miss the whole point. As you said, an archer is supposed to be really quick and escape as soon as possible, but this goes in contrast with the game mechanics.

      Let's try to imagine an hypothetical Metin2-world, in which skills are casted as fastly as normal, ranged arrow-hits. What would happen? Probably everyone would be complaining.

      Fire and Poison arrow are not so much slower, if compared with... Black Magic's Dark Strike, for instance.

      So, I believe that while it's true that skills are slow to be performed and somewhat hinder archer's swift nature, I'm afraid that changing them would be too exaggerated.

      -

      If I really have to complain about something, I'll tell you, it's Feather Walk limited radius - the minibombs seem quite useless to me, as they are now.

    • What I wanted to point out is that the skill is interrupted if you're attacked or knocked back while the animation is running...something I never noticed with Dark Strike or Rolling Dagger for ex. So their animation might be longer but it is finalised and the damage is dealt in the end, something that doesn't happen with the archer. For an archer, if you're interrupted, the skill deals no damage.

      I never said to reduce it so much as to be similar with a hit, it would not be a fair thing...but at least reduce the skill animation with 1 sec and make it not to be interrupted if attacked.

      The archer is a character mainly designed for GvG (general fights) not 1 vs 1 combat. It's skills, are mainly aimed at multiple targets or have AoE and with the exception of Spark has no skill that allows him to escape a mele fight. Having so long animations skills makes him most of the time a sitting duck and negates it's whole role and limits it's mobility.

      I want to be fair and say that the changes that were implemented are mostly good and inline with what other archers said. The only two "complaints" would be the ability to cast Spark without a bow since it should help in PvM also (to be allowed to cast it with any equipped weapon) and second, what I've said in this topic about skill animation

      Thank you

    • I actually noticed that, if you are suffering an auto-attack assault (or if you're just being targeted by a Warrior with high attack speed) you may have problems into casting skills, because, while you are being knocked down, skills won't start at all - even if you keep pressing the respective button.

      The "obvious" answer to this, is preventing the enemies from "grabbing" you - that is to say, casting arrow skills from a significant distance.

      However, there are cases in which the animation starts and won't be interrupted. If you get to cast the skill just a moment BEFORE you are being thrown away, the animation will start - no matter what - and you will be dealing damage. An example of this might be given by a duel vs. a Dagger Ninja: if you start casting Fire Arrow just a moment before he's about to complete his combo before perform a Rolling Dagger, you will actually shot your arrow and deal damage.

      Obviously, your damage will be dealt "later", as soon as your animation is completed - while the Dagger Ninja dealt his damages almost "synchronously" to his acrobatics.

      Anyway, I'm not against your idea at all.

    • The auto-attack issue is known but unfortunately nobody cares about it even it is so abused by certain classes/players. This is another "advantage" besides bugs or other things that oly some classes can use or benefit off. Archer cannot use auto-attack at all (at least not with a bow).

      Regarding what you've said, yes, theoretically IF you are able to cast the skill just before it should be fine. However, in the real situation this almost doesn't happen and it is because of the lag mainly. Regardless of your PC and internet connection, there is lag sometimes. I have one of the best gaming PC configurations available and the best internet connection and still have lag sometimes or not lag just random delays, enough for the skill not to be casted. You eventually see the opponent far away or doing something else and you try to cast the skill and a moment later you find yourself knocked down and the skill doesn't do any harm.

      By reducing a little the animation time, this will not happen so often that's all I want to say. Of course probably it won't solve it for good but at least will make it happen less frequent. Any improvement is better than no improvement

    • I guess I'm a bit off topic here, but oh well. I actually wanted to know what @Strijelac and @Rapier think.

      Being unable to toss enemies/monsters while wearing daggers is really painful - and you realize how difficult it can be in very complex dungeons.

      Just like Zodiacs.

      Archers tend to use mounts pretty much in PvE, making up for the lack of skills. Horse backslash is a life saver.

      However, the dungeon introduced a new mechanics of dismounting, which is fun allright, but put Archers in the corner when it comes to escaping from enemies.

      Considering that upper level Zodiacs are quite strong, a "bashing" skill would have been really useful.

      The new idea you came up with for Sparkle is truly disappointing, I really have to say this. You just had to make it executable with Dagger.

      _

      I'm also not happy at all with the new Feather Walk design. It should help the player to escape, become faster and more evasive. What's with this "mini-bomb" delirium? And more over, with the "only-bow executable" limitation?

    • I totally agree with you for the Spark thing @BlueShade. Spark was the only skill that could be used in both PvP and PvM to escape from being cornered by players/mobs. Now by restricting it's use only to bows, Archers are no longer able to use the main purpose of this skill...to evade. Of course I was talking about PvM here cause in PvP we are presumed to use the bow.

      Also due to the new "mechanics" in the Zodiac Temple, mobs attacks you immediately after you resurrect, even when you're not yet visible. Same is valid for Spark when you're "invisible" so that function (supposing we were using a bow) is not really very useful here. It was much better in all cases to be allowed that Spark be casted regardless of the weapon used. But as was already said, no more changes are currently made so I guess this will remain something for the future...hope not a distant one

    • To summarize to GF one simply wants 3 things: Use spark with any weapon without arrows or quiver.
      Use feather walk under the same conditions as above.
      That the repeated shooting damage be split and that they can all have a chance to make a critical and piercing shot.

      It's not very complicated to understand, put that back up so that they implant it to the next beta. It is not abused, it is not too much demanded, it is just the minimum for this class to be pleasant to play (the basis of a game) and less zero in pvm.

      @unforgiven @meh @Comkra @Olthir @Firelli @Aworan @Wunyo @Spark @Potroha @JeFo @Albus @Groot @Rhaegal @Fourier @skilgannon @badidol @HalfOp @Web @Anayra @threea @Lord Syrio @Art @Paso @DeRiNDaRBe

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Strijelac ().

    • To be honest, i don’t see a Reason why Spark should be useable with Daggers. It’s an Archer Ninja exclusive Skill. I can’t use the Dagger Ninjas Skill with a Bow.. So why should Spark be useable with Daggers? Don’t get me wrong, I would not mind if you could. But like it got mentioned before, it looks like Webzen does not want spark to be useable with Daggers aswell.
      if you need help with anything, don't hesitate to ask me.

      Alles was ich im Umfang einer Diskussion schreibe, stellt lediglich meine persönliche Meinung dar.
      Solltet ihr Probleme im Spiel haben oder Hilfe benötigen könnt ihr euch jederzeit an mich wenden!

    • I want to add that playing an archer at pve isn't very easy anyway. You can't use any skill anymore after this update. To escape from bigger group of monsters the skill spark was very usefull also it's now imposible to use feather walk as well with daggers or a sword. The damage what the skills make is really not important, it only matters to have a better gameplay with an archer at pve.

      The skills are still only archer exclusive skills, but it makes an archer definitely more interesting for some players. I don't know many players who like to play only with auto attacks and can only use their skills in not existing pvp...

    • Sorry guys.. but as soon as you're going PvE with the Archer. You are wearing Daggers anyway. And with Daggers you are able to use Horse Skills. So i don't see the "escape" Point in this Topic.

      As i explained before. I would not mind if you were able to use Spark with Daggers, however Dagger Ninja can't use their Skill with Bow's either. Furthermore Webzen does not want it to be that way.. so?
      if you need help with anything, don't hesitate to ask me.

      Alles was ich im Umfang einer Diskussion schreibe, stellt lediglich meine persönliche Meinung dar.
      Solltet ihr Probleme im Spiel haben oder Hilfe benötigen könnt ihr euch jederzeit an mich wenden!

    • And for feather walk you have a credible explanation that holds the road? An assassin can use mist with bow and without weapon, he can use stealth with bow and without weapon. What can the archer do without a weapon or even with a weapon but without ARROWS? Absolutely nothing so sorry nothing keeps webzen is just silly if they think it's okay like that.

    • meh wrote:

      Sorry guys.. but as soon as you're going PvE with the Archer. You are wearing Daggers anyway. And with Daggers you are able to use Horse Skills. So i don't see the "escape" Point in this Topic.

      As i explained before. I would not mind if you were able to use Spark with Daggers, however Dagger Ninja can't use their Skill with Bow's either. Furthermore Webzen does not want it to be that way.. so?
      Sorry but that's not correct. Just tested it on live server and Dagger Ninjas COULD cast Poison Cloud and Invizibility (Camouflage) without ANY weapon and they can do it with a bow also. So this is not a valid argument. And Poison Cloud especially when you have AMR stones can deal ALOT of damage, much more than Spark. Why we (archers) are limited in this way?

      And not in all places you could ride a horse and/or mount. Try to escape in Nemere's Watchtower with a ninja when you're blocked by mobs on some floor... and that's only a quick example. Do that at Meley...

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Rapier ().

    • meh wrote:

      Sorry guys.. but as soon as you're going PvE with the Archer. You are wearing Daggers anyway. And with Daggers you are able to use Horse Skills. So i don't see the "escape" Point in this Topic.

      As i explained before. I would not mind if you were able to use Spark with Daggers, however Dagger Ninja can't use their Skill with Bow's either. Furthermore Webzen does not want it to be that way.. so?
      You're right for the most places an archer will use daggers and could escape by horse skills. That still only works if there is no delay while mouting, a fight from a horse is with daggers also not possible because the daggers are thrown away each attack. Also there some places at the game, f.e. Nemeres Whatchtower where you're unable to use horse skills. Here you have no chance to escape from the monsters.

      You're right maybe Webzen thinks at the moment that this improvement isn't necessary, but to be honest this would be a small change and will help archers at pve. Still with this changes an archer will be the weakest class for pve.

      I agree with @Strijelac that isn't fair that a dagger ninja can use some of his skills with a bow or even without a weapon. Even though a dagger ninja has a lot of advantages in pve in comparison to an archer...