Some thoughts.

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    • Some thoughts.

      Let's get real here: Metin2 is a dying game :( . Most of us, at least on the Sol Server, are already hopeless about this game, and only play for nostalgia, or due to the fact that we have already spent too much to let go of it. It's like when you've been in a relationship for 5 years, and you feel like breaking up, but you don't do it because you don't want to feel like throwing those 5 years away for "nothing." Am I wrong?

      With that being said, some of the new proposed changes have made me really hyped about continuing to play :thumbsup: . The problem is... I have a very strong feeling that the new changes will have the same effect as the Global Server ?( . A LOT of hype for about two weeks, lots of people playing, lots of happiness, people trying really hard... and then... death.

      Why? Because Metin2 has many difficulties in attracting and maintaining newer players. Ask around. 90% of the players currently playing this game have been doing so for years. It's very rare to find someone who's been playing for weeks/months. Those people simply don't stay around long enough. Again... why? Because they can't compete. That is Metin2's biggest problem at the moment. Newer players simply do not feel like the game is rewarding enough for them to keep playing.

      This brings me to my next point. I think some of the new changes will absolutely improve this game.

      - The lvl 105 Weapon with AVG not being a direct upgrade from Poison +9 is absolutely AMAZING :thumbup: . Some people are complaining about the fact that they invested too much on Poison +9. Yeah. So what? What about the little guy who can't even afford a trash Poison +9 in the first place? Imagine if the lvl 105 weapon needed Poison +9 as an upgrade. That would be ridiculous. The price of Poisons +9 would go insane, and that would only cause for the Server to die even further. The fact that you can't use a Poison +9 to upgrade into anything else is absolutely a positive point. This will certainly help newer players.

      - Not being able to use a Rune Sword to upgrade into the new weapon is also, in my opinion, a very positive point. This will balance the game in many ways. Metin2 at its current state is VERY STALE, where I can start today and plan for 2 sets until I am lvl 105 at least. That's just so silly. People don't even bother with certain things, because we have it all figured out. It's nearly impossible to find the Dragon Tooth Blade +9 because nobody uses it. That should never have happened. Not being able to upgrade a Rune +9 into the new weapons will open doors for new players too, with Exorcism Swords (currently extinct) will become a thing, and so will Ghost Fang Blades (almost extinct), as they are necessary for the Edge Blades that become Dragon Tooth. This is SURELY an improvement for the whole game. I know some Warriors will think this is terrible, but that's because people are greedy. They only care about themselves. Look at the bigger picture, please. Stop thinking "but I invested so much, bla bla bla." It's no fun being the strongest guy in a game if you are the only guy that plays.

      - Furthermore, making a Dungeon that players can run from lvl 20 is another amazing idea. I've been playing this game for 6 months, and honestly, I was so bored, I nearly quit, until a few weeks ago when I started making DT Runs. It's so fun! It renewed my interest in the game, and I know for a fact that a lot more people will be interested in the game if there are Dungeons that they can play on from lower levels. This is a hugely positive point. I just hope that the rewards are good enough to encourage people to keep playing, but only time will tell.

      - Finally, making Bells relevant as a higher damage weapon for Dragon Shaman is also very good. What Metin2 needs now more than ever is relevance in its items. Who uses Bells? Nobody. Let's make it happen. And just like with Runes, some Shamans will complain about the fact that they have Fans and no Bells, so I will say it again: stop being greedy and close-minded. Think about the good of the game.

      The more relevant items are, the better the game becomes. I am absolutely tired of seeing the EXACT same items in every single character (Leather Boots, Golden Necklace, Heaven's Tear Set, WGB, FMS, Poison, 34/70 Armors, Battle, Triton, Runes, etc). Do people even know that other items exist? When was the last type you saw an Exorcist Sword being used? Nymph? Ghost Fang? Literally any Bell? Lvl 48/54 Armors? Kill the staleness! I understand the Battle is much better than the Nymph, or the Exo. I know Ghost Fang is only useful for BM and that is why it's rare, which makes it a problem that's embedded at the core of the game: people like Warriors. So many suras would have problems getting a lvl 120 weapon if the Rune could be upgraded, it would be insane.

      Now for the negatives:

      The nerf to Dragon's Aid is a huge negative point. Metin2 is too grindy. Having a Buff is the single most important thing for newbies that are basically trying to do anything. How many people actually have 130+ INT on their Buffs? And that's not to mention P Skills. Imagine needing 132 INT and P Dragon's Aid in order to get 26% Crits. That's insane. For some context, in the Brazil Server (probably the biggest Metin2 Server out there right now) they nerfed Crits in a similar way, and it turned out to be a terrible idea. Their work-around was to have Crits working differently for PVP and PVM. Crits got nerfed very strongly for PVP, but they maintained it exactly the same way as it was before their patch for PVM (they already have the new weapons and armors).

      Please, don't ruin PVM. It's literally the only thing that "newbies" can do, and trust me, this game is nothing without the lower levels. If you ruin PVM, this game will officially be buried. Find a way to balance the difference between PVP and PVM when it comes to Dragon's Aid. 26% Crits at 132 INT and P Dragon's Aid is simply ridiculous. I will say it again: please don't ruin PVM. Maintain Dragon's Aid as it is. Let us have 50% Crits as a buff. Just decrease how much damage is done through Crits in PVP. Kill our Buffs, kill the game. That's a fact. Only lvl 105+ (maybe not even them) don't need their Buffs anymore.

      ~~~

      There are clearly many more problems that need to be dealt with in order for Metin2 even become decent again. In my personaly opinion many things need to be changed, starting with the lvl 30 weapons. They are simply too overpowered. I can literally go from lvl 0 to lvl 120 with only two weapons: a FMS and a Poison. That's just stupid. AVG damage should be left to lvl 75 weapons ONLY. Or... it should be added to lvl 55 weapons and removed from lvl 30 weapons. At the very least, lvl 30 weapons should get nerfed to max 10% AVG. Being able to go from lvl 0 to lvl 120 with only two weapons is simply insane.

      I understand the above paragraph goes a bit against my "let's keep the game alive by helping the newbies" statements, but I feel this is a necessary evil in terms of improving the game. Being able to have a lvl 30 weapon with 55% AVG is simply not understandable. Lvl 30 weapons absolutely need to get nerfed big time. And that's coming from someone with a 54% AVG FMS.

      I don't know how this would happen, seeing as many people have invested heavily on their FMSs or RIBs for their farmers - that includes me - but it needs to happen someway, somehow.

      ~

      Another improvement that absolutely needs to be done, and in some ways it's already happening, is improving high lvl farming. Lvl 35 Farmers in Map 2 have absolutely been one of the biggest reasons for this game dying. It's simply too overpowered, and there are many lvl 105+ players with lvl 35 farmers because it's profitable enough for them. The problem is, during Events, it becomes impossible to compete as a new player. I started playing during the Easter event, and as a lvl 22 with shitty items, how do I compete with lvl 35 Farmers with P Skills, 20%+ Sashes and 45% AVG+ weapons? I had to farm during the early mornings, because during the afternoon it was impossible. Why didn't they farm with their high lvl mains?!

      ~~~

      It's already quite late here, and I am a bit tired. I wrote this off the dome in a few minutes, and surely there are many things that I could add, but I feel like this post is enough to create a hot discussion in terms of improving this game, and hopefully, I will convince some people that the lvl 105 and the Rune points are positive for the game, rather than negative.

      ~~~

      To end this post, I will ask, please, please, please, please, please !!! let's keep our differences aside. Let's get together and improve the game as a whole. Stop making arguments or giving "tips" in order to only improve yourself and your character. I see many Warriors complaining about their Runes, many Shamans complaining about their Fans, etc. Stop being so greedy. You cannot play alone. Would you like to have a full lvl 120 Set with perfect bonuses and play alone? I don't think so. Accept these changes, and give tips that can improve the entire game, not just what you like in it.

      There is still hope for this game after all. What we need is balance, and not more ways to improve the already OP high levels with perfect items. We do not need more 42%+ AVG Poisons becoming new items. We do not need more Warriors with Runes. We need balance!

      if you read all of this, congrats and thanks.

      peace out, homies
    • I totally agree.

      Maybe for everyone, maybe for some players or just for me; this beta version will affect the end result. The following are addressed to the game managers;

      There are things to do before releasing beta, the most important is the fight with bots and yang sellers (I'm a TR player). GameGuard does not work, you see it, but you do not produce a solution. To open a ticket for bot, we need to record video, upload it to YouTube, and write it to you. It's tiring to deal with it. Can not you make it simpler?

      There are characters who have not received any improvement for many years, one is magical weapon (WP Sura), the other is a body warrior. Nothing is thought of for these two characters who lift the burden of the game. Already adjusted characters are being readjusted. If past regulations are wrong, the present will be wrong.

      The adjustment to the dragon force shamans is extremely illogical. Dragon force shamans will no longer be able to help out of the group and they can also help with low critical values into the group. I dont understand why you need this change.

      Finally; Why would a new player come to this game? You only want players to spend money, so existing players leave the game and the new player does not come.

      Best regards.
      “Why are you wearing that stupid bunny suit?”
      “Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?”

      The post was edited 1 time, last by baklawa: GaarasamaGreekServer: "Let's not forget WP suras." ().

    • rodrigorbg wrote:

      The lvl 105 Weapon with AVG not being a direct upgrade from Poison +9 is absolutely AMAZING
      It is a double edge sword. On one hand it is good because it will not be that easy to get and they will take time to develop. On the other hand, there are many many many players that have used way too many hundeds of euros to make the poison swords they have (~50+ avg). That is because there have been many many many times that we the players have proposed to make new avg weapons with better attack values for bigger levels and then answer was ALWAYS no. So we had to accept that the 75 lvl avg weapons were the final and that we would not get new weapons so we invested a lot of money on these weapons. And now we must invest all over again because the already invested money are used on the 75 lvl avg weapons. I don't say that it is a necessity to aqcuire them, but let's be true it sucks to spend 500 euros on enchants to get ~50 avg and then to have an announcement that you can get a new weapon with really better stats BUT you have to invest all over again to get a good avg %. As i am saying again it is not that we MUST get them, but since the game is advancing with the Zodiac Temple and it is difficult with new strong bosses, then our damage must also advance and that is the way (apart from the pendants maybe) since crits were nerfed, we need a bigger BASE damage. And having to invest from the start SUCKS in a way. And i am being neutral i do not see my pocket only.

      rodrigorbg wrote:

      Not being able to use a Rune Sword to upgrade into the new weapon is also, in my opinion, a very positive point.
      It is not that i do not know that warriors can reach 300+k dmg, but magic characters cannot reach 150k (maybe they can but i am using an example). That is because it is possible to increase that much more the attack value and get to an even bigger damage. But in pvp let's say 75% sword defense (without taking into account the new pendants) without taking into account the warrior def (because it can be the same with the sura def) does make a warrior's damage less than 1k dmg, or even close to 0 if the warrior does not have much HH. On the other hand having like 100% magic resistanse does not make the dmg that much less, because it is like from 10k dmg you go to 1,5k, but for the warrior from 20k you go to less than 1k, because the sword/dagger/weapon defence is calculated in a different manner from the magic resistanse. You may have 100% magic resistanse but it will affect the bm's dmg less than the 75% sword def because of the different manner of calculation. And now to the rune sword. It is not a problem only to warriors. Think of it that way. From the beggining WP suras always had to use Battle Sword, Poison Sword, Triton, Rune Sword, because they have better attack value than a sura's exclusive weapons. It is like telling the players, sadly suras will always have to use triton,rune etc because of the better value so they will NEVER have to invest in the sura's exclusive weapons (except for the bm suras), BUT on the other hand, why not make WP suras invest again (after investing some hundreds for Rune Sword) to make a Dragon Tooth from the start to be able to upgrade to new weapon. 99% of WP suras use Rune because it is the best choise (of the two), but now they have to invest from the start to create a Dragon Tooth and continue from there to make the new Epic Thunder Sword + 9 which has
      Display Spoiler
      Epic Thunder Sword + 9
      Required Level: 115
      Attack: 407-462
      Magic Attack: 399-461
      Attack Speed: + 25%
      Bonus Against Humanoids: 20%
      Bonus Against Monsters: + 8%
      Classes: Sura


      against the Rune and Dragon Tooth that have less Attack Value, Magic Attack, Attack Speed, Humanoids and Monster, so both of them are way inferior to the Epic Thunder Sword.


      Display Spoiler
      Rune Sword + 9
      Required Level: 105
      Attack: 403-457
      Magic Attack: 369-411
      Attack Speed: + 15%
      Bonus Against Humanoids: 15%
      Bonus Against Monsters: + 5%
      Classes: Warrior Sura Ninja

      Dragon Tooth Blade + 9
      Required Level: 105
      Attack: 366-414
      Magic Attack: 399-461
      Attack Speed: + 15%
      Bonus Against Humanoids: 15%
      Bonus Against Monsters: + 5%
      Classes: Sura


      On the other hand, the one handed warriors will not be able to advance in the game because for now they cannot upgrade their Rune Sword. And that is a problem, because from the start of Epic Weapons, the two handed weapons were not a really wise choise since they could not get double HH. So in other words they were always avoided. I understand that maybe GF/Webzen wants to make the two handed weapons a choise for the players but when the two handed weapon were always weaker from the one handed weapons almost 90% of the players did not even try/think of even creating one. And that is wrong because the worst choise for warriors and WP suras is now something that they must make from the start to advance in the game. More UNFAIR money to the GF/Webzen.

      GF/Webzen thinking: How will we make more money ? Let's make them create <<useless>> weapons since they don't have them already, so that they will be able to make the new epic weapons. 200-300 euro for each Dragon Tooth Blade/Solar Blade with good weapons and then way more money for the new epic. Conclusion-> BRIGHT IDEA, let's do it.

      rodrigorbg wrote:

      Furthermore, making a Dungeon that players can run from lvl 20 is another amazing idea.

      Have you even been in the Zodiac Temple ? Have you even seen videos of it ? If not then have a look here Zodiac Temple - Is the Temple manageable for average player?. You will understand that the only the Zodiac Temple is available from 20 lvl just for a show and not literally. The Zodiac Temple is high level content except for the talismans which are for 60 lvl. It would be most straightforward if the Zodiac Temple would be for 50 lvl and more instead of 20 lvl. That is just a joke.

      rodrigorbg wrote:

      - Finally, making Bells relevant as a higher damage weapon for Dragon Shaman is also very good
      Yes and no. What bothers me is that 95% of the Dragon Shamans only have a fan because of the better Magic Attack. So again:

      GF/Webzen thinking: How will we make EVEN more money ? Let's make shamans create new pvp bells, since they are not used now. It is just that the coin flipped to the side of the Dragon Shamans (or maybe they based it to the fact that Dragon Shamans can kick ass with normal hits since fan/bell def is not used in 99% of the cases). Conclusion-> BRIGHT IDEA, let's do it TOO.


      Case is that most of GF's/Webzen's moves of the 17.5 beta SEEM to be gold digger moves :). And that is why most players complain. Since we have invested some thousands of euros, why not invest one or two thousands more (for each player) for the <<necessary>> equipment instead of let's say 500 euros for warrios, WP suras and dragon shamans since they should already have the necessary equipment to take it to the next upgrade.



      baklawa wrote:

      There are things to do before releasing beta, the most important is the fight with bots and yang sellers (I'm a TR player). GameGuard does not work, you see it, but you do not produce a solution. To open a ticket for bot, we need to record video, upload it to YouTube, and write it to you. It's tiring to deal with it. Can not you make it simpler?



      The adjustment to the dragon force shamans is extremely illogical. Dragon force shamans will no longer be able to help out of the group and they can also help with low critical values into the group. I dont understand why you need this change.
      I agree with the above.


      baklawa wrote:

      There are characters who have not received any improvement for many years, one is magical weapon, the other is a body warrior. Nothing is thought of for these two characters who lift the burden of the game. Already adjusted characters are being readjusted. If past regulations are wrong, the present will be wrong.
      Don't forget the AMR stones. For the warriors i agree. Let's not forget WP suras.