Why some classes do not fully benefit from Status bonuses?

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    • Why some classes do not fully benefit from Status bonuses?

      Greetings,

      I really don't get why the extra-status bonus isn't calculated in the same way for every class. I'm talking of +12 INT, DEX, VIT, STR found on weapons and shields.

      Lycans may get full benefits from those bonuses, as the primary status influences the attack damage in a 2:1 ratio, while the secondary status has an effect on the attack damage in a 1:1 ratio.

      (By the way, Lycans attack damage is ALSO influenced by INT, because of the indirect effects it displays on Crimson Wolf Soul).

      However, other classes do not display this linear behaviour, so they actually have less bonuses they can exploit.

      I wanted to know if this is a bug/an oversight - or if it is intended this way, and in the latter case, why.

      Thanks in advance.

    • No, every class just gets extra attack damage from TWO statuses only.

      Lycans benefit from DEX in a 2:1 ratio and VIT in a 1:1 ratio. And plus they get extra attack damages via-Crimson by boosting INT.

      And I'm perfectly fine with that.

      What I don't understand is why other classes do not get the same ratios from their primary and secondary statuses.

    • BlueShade wrote:

      No, every class just gets extra attack damage from TWO statuses only.

      Lycans benefit from DEX in a 2:1 ratio and VIT in a 1:1 ratio. And plus they get extra attack damages via-Crimson by boosting INT.

      And I'm perfectly fine with that.

      What I don't understand is why other classes do not get the same ratios from their primary and secondary statuses.
      What about weapon sura? they get damage increase in self buff with INT and extra damage from dex and str

    • The sura don't have 470 attack value by him skill, have the possibility of absorb TP and duration skill by 175. Stop crying and watch lykan because now he is useless in pvm. The warrior have 686 of attack don't need to change item and have a speed skill animation. You must Think before crying and study perfectly all class benefit and limitation

    • First of all, chill. I've been comparing all of the classes, so I know what I'm talking about.

      Secondly, it's actually you and the other champion over there who are crying beforehand - just like you've been doing since this beta started - are you still scared of nerfs on doggies?
      No one wants to nerf Lycans, by the way, that's not my aim, so stop being so childish and try understanding the whole point with me - if you want, otherwise, please do not follow me.

      Since you apparently hate Warriors and Suras so much, I'll switch to Ninjas and Shamans, since this "problem" involves them as well.

      _

      Ninjas and Shamans almost do not get any real benefit from their secondary statuses.

      Ninjas, for example, get a boost on atkDamage derived from STR which follows a "1 : 0.25" ratio, which is pretty much ridicolous. A ninja may buy two items with +12STR (total = +24str) but only gets a boost of +6 points on attack damage.

      This way, Ninjas' atkDamage is practically just influenced by a single status (that would be their primary status, DEX): more over, STR does not provide any side-effect which would justify a so significantly low contribution to atkDamage.

      Same goes for DEX on Shamans (that would be their secondary status) which are already pretty weak when it comes to atkDamage. Not to mention the whole fuss about buff nerfing.

    • so...

      Attack works pretty differently depending on the character. Let't talk about "normal melee" base damage:

      Warriors main attack formula derives from STR, the same happens to Sura. For Ninjas it derives from DEX as MAJOR influence and STR as minor influence. For Shamans it is INT for major influence and DEX as minor. For Lycan, it is DEX as main and VIT as 2nd.

      On top of this you have dexterity as an overarching multiplier to damage - it will usually give you a bit more damage in % independently if you have it as Major, minor or as no influence.


      If you talk about skill damage, then it is a bit more complex. There are lots of influencing factors that may or may not be part of the end calculation: Skill Level, Character Level, STR, DEX, VIT, INT, Attack Value, Weapon Damage, etc. Skills do not use the same formula which means that you cannot directly compare why Character A has 5 attack against Character B that only has 3.


      It is a bit more complicated. :)


      Ah, PS: If the characters maximize their "Normal Melee" damage, the end result will be +/- the same. :p

    • Many thanks for your detailed answer, @unforgiven.

      I was referring to the "simpler" case, that would be, the attack damage calculated and displayed in the character sheet. And yeah, I was basically thinking of the "normal melee" damage (i.e. hitting Metin rocks or bosses).

      While it's true that it probably wouldn't make much of a difference, I still don't get why they have been made different.

      I was thinking of some more complicated reasoning, actually. Some classes benefit from statuses in a different way - for instance, Shamans get extra bonuses on their Buff skills when wearing extra INT. The same goes for the (brand new!) way Ninjas' poisoning chance is calculated.

      Overall, you probably intended Shamans and Ninjas not entirely as "physical" classes.

      So I guess that's why INT on Shamans does not follow a 1:2 relationship, concerning its atkDamage influence.

      However, I don't get why the secondary status (that would be DEX for Shamans) is so disappointing on the atkDamage.

      I think that a difference of about +30 points on atkValue (given by all of the extra status bonuses available in the game), considering the extra boost given by the average damages on the weapon, the pets, zin potions, the mount and other minor bonuses may actually play a little difference.

      Anyway, it's definitely a minor issue. I just wanted to point it out, if you believe it's worth discussing it, it's definitely up to you.

      Thanks for your attention, anyway.

    • unforgiven wrote:

      so...

      Attack works pretty differently depending on the character. Let't talk about "normal melee" base damage:

      Warriors main attack formula derives from STR, the same happens to Sura. For Ninjas it derives from DEX as MAJOR influence and STR as minor influence. For Shamans it is INT for major influence and DEX as minor. For Lycan, it is DEX as main and VIT as 2nd.

      On top of this you have dexterity as an overarching multiplier to damage - it will usually give you a bit more damage in % independently if you have it as Major, minor or as no influence.


      If you talk about skill damage, then it is a bit more complex. There are lots of influencing factors that may or may not be part of the end calculation: Skill Level, Character Level, STR, DEX, VIT, INT, Attack Value, Weapon Damage, etc. Skills do not use the same formula which means that you cannot directly compare why Character A has 5 attack against Character B that only has 3.


      It is a bit more complicated. :)


      Ah, PS: If the characters maximize their "Normal Melee" damage, the end result will be +/- the same. :p
      I have a lykan but thats not the point since i have a warrior as well so my question is this: Why the warrior has almost 700 attack value and the lykan has to buff himself with int(3 items) and not even reach the amount of attack given to warrior. lykans lose a lot of time for buffing and if they dont the dmg is considerably smaller. a good balancing for me is making the same attack value in the same conditions for every class... i just dont want people anymore to buff with certain stat points.. lets just make the game better take out this stupid thing with inteligence for lykans and suras and im talking only about the attack damage given(or defence for black magic suras). why cant just all char have almost the same attack value without any influence given by stats? its very easy for a warrior just press a button and they have aura(700 att) but the lykan in the same conditions have less than 500 not to mention the melee attack which is... :)). SO in my point of view(and many others im sure) you should seriously think to take out this int thing.

    • unforgiven wrote:

      While Lycan doesn't get attack through STR, it gets through DEX and VIT. Warriors do not get attack through DEX and VIT like Lycans. Same for Shamans.

      I really do not understand where you are going with this, IElfenLied.
      I see a big problem for the classes that can benefit from all the different 4 status. A warrior or a lykan can have all their power because they don't need one of the four stats, while weaponary suras, archery ninjas and shamans have to sacrifice one of their stats.

    • YoTeDoPo wrote:

      I see a big problem for the classes that can benefit from all the different 4 status. A warrior or a lykan can have all their power because they don't need one of the four stats, while weaponary suras, archery ninjas and shamans have to sacrifice one of their stats.

      not just that, there are som items that bring really important bonuses, 3ebony earings have str and hp (realli interessting), however, the characters who dont power up with str but with int, have a earrings with 14 int and 5% critic but WOAHHHHHH critic now is useless. Another missing point from balance........
      “Although there is no progress without change, not all change is progress.”
      :!: John Robert Wooden :!:
      Customer complaints are the schoolbooks from which we learn.
      Lou Guerstner

    • TcatalunyaT wrote:

      YoTeDoPo wrote:

      I see a big problem for the classes that can benefit from all the different 4 status. A warrior or a lykan can have all their power because they don't need one of the four stats, while weaponary suras, archery ninjas and shamans have to sacrifice one of their stats.
      not just that, there are som items that bring really important bonuses, 3ebony earings have str and hp (realli interessting), however, the characters who dont power up with str but with int, have a earrings with 14 int and 5% critic but WOAHHHHHH critic now is useless. Another missing point from balance........
      Yes, there should be earrings with INT+HP and with VIT+HP.

    • Well, this is NOT the original aim of my topic - not entirely, at least.

      My observation concerned the fact that some classes apparently do NOT receive full benefits from their specific statuses, when it comes to analyzing the basic attack damage (and melee hits in general).

      Every class has got only TWO "basic" statuses and it has ALWAYS been that way.

      Lycans get (and actually get a FULL benefit, here) extra attack damage from DEX and VIT. So I don't see what are you complaining about, here.

      -

      As for the extra boost on some SKILLS, like Crimson Soul and Enchanted Blade (mostly given by INT) I believe it's a nice feature. It's true that it makes a skill very strong but it's a signature trait that makes classes more interesting. By the way, it also justifies the existence of this status bonuses, otherwise everyone would be ignoring them.

      Yet, it forces you to find the best combination of equipment.

      -

      However, what YoTeDoPo said is interesting and recalls the original intent of my topic.

      Regarding the question this thread deals with, Lycans definitely cannot complain, because they not only fully benefit from DEX and VIT, but also get a (nice and justified, according to me) extra bonus given by INT.

      Remember that I'm just talking of melee hits here, so I'm completely ignoring the extra benefits STR may give to some skills (because ALL of the Lycans' attacking skills DO receive extra damage from STR, so it's not really true that STR is useless to Lycans).

      In particular, when raising the secondary status SINCE THE CHARACTER CREATION, a Lykan may get +90 extra atk (1atkDamage point for each VIT point), whereas Ninja and Shamans do not follow this behaviour when raising their secondary status and actually end up with about +30 atkDamage points deriving from that status.

      So we're not talking about 3 or 5 points, here, because you have to consider the atkDamage points given by the stats since the creation of the character.

      This features actually puts in a corner Shamans and Ninjas.

    • i know my last post here wasnt too much related to the thread, but as i purposed in other threads and has been IGNORED ALL TIMES, and as @YoTeDoPo that suggestion should be taken seriously and i posted here bcthe main purpose of this thread goes about how stats points afect each character.

      So as seen in last changes, some characters will have to renounce to vit points to can maximize theyr skills so hp and def will be lost and not all combinations of earrings have status+hp and that is a mess, because as i said on the last post, just look at the 54 earrings, 5% critical chance now is ridiculouse aht is that comared to 1,6k hp from other earring (i,e, str+ hp and dex+hp), so i find some points missing here.

      As the team members said a balanec means lots of things and its not a simple task, but ALL things have to be taken into account.


      pd: in the live servers at leas habing str in a shaman increases de AV output, but in the 17.5 version olny power up some skills, not the output AV
      “Although there is no progress without change, not all change is progress.”
      :!: John Robert Wooden :!:
      Customer complaints are the schoolbooks from which we learn.
      Lou Guerstner

    • TcatalunyaT wrote:

      pd: in the live servers at leas habing str in a shaman increases de AV output, but in the 17.5 version olny power up some skills, not the output AV
      This happens because, on live servers, STR used to influence atkDamage, being one of the two "class-specific" statuses of Shamans.

      However, this has been changed in 17.5.

      Now, atkDamage for Shamans is influenced by INT and DEX.

      Still, Shamans' atkDamage has always received a pretty poor contribution from its two statuses. So the overall change you get when maxing out INT/DEX and wearing items providing extra bonus, isn't really valuable at all.

      As for the earrings, probably you won't agree with me, but players using magical classes are actually the only ones who can really exploit Ruby Earrings, since their skills are definitely stronger when wearing extra INT - in combination with 8% resistance to skill damages.

      In other circumstances (such as PvM) you may switch to a defensive configuration, actually still retaining some atkDamage boost (given by DEX), HPs and even 8% res. to avg damages.

      I guess this is one of the reasons the status was switched from STR/INT to INT/DEX.

      The bad part of it is that DEX does not boost atkDamage in a significant way - and this is what this topic was about.